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A Failure of Lenin: What happens next?

Jophiel

Trend Setting 'Gender Tourist' since 2018.
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The October Revolution is potentially one of the most important single events of the 20th century that redefined how many saw the Far Left, as well as more geopolitically the dominance of the Soviets after WW2 and the Cold War.

Maybe the final push from Estonia is able to capture Petrograd and this collapses Bolshevik morale. Could have Lenin be killed before he enters Russia.

And while the situation for Russia is fascinating, I want to focus a bit more on left wing support. If they can no longer send aid to the Bolsheviks (or forced to by being deported there by respective governments), where next? Could this result in a Luxemburgist Germany? And then that spurs more questions.


I'm not too knowledgeable on this topic, so I decided to open this thread for it, to see what everyone else thinks.
 
The Russian Revolution is potentially one of the most important single events of the 20th century that redefined how many saw the Far Left, as well as more geopolitically the dominance of the Soviets after WW2 and the Cold War.

Maybe the final push from Estonia is able to capture Petrograd and this collapses Bolshevik morale. Could have Lenin be killed before he enters Russia.

And while the situation for Russia is fascinating, I want to focus a bit more on left wing support. If they can no longer send aid to the Bolsheviks (or forced to by being deported there by respective governments), where next? Could this result in a Luxemburgist Germany? And then that spurs more questions.


I'm not too knowledgeable on this topic, so I decided to open this thread for it.
Ahem

https://www.sealionpress.co.uk/product-page/the-limpid-stream
 
More seriously tho,it would be interesting to see a timeline where Kerensky is more successful in his goals.

Luxemburgist Germany,while possible after WW1,won’t be longer lived,as Germany’s neighbors will try to stop them.That and the rest of the political elements in Germany,who won’t just sit and let that happen,resulting in a civil war.
 
I am entirely ignorant about anything post 1900 that isn't happening in Africa so I'm going to have to sit out on this one.

But it's an interesting question as to what's most likely if the Kerensky government gets a stay of execution in 1917. Do they still drop out of the war? Do the reactionaries get back in? Is there still a civil war? Does the international left lean more towards anarchism without the shining example of a successful communist state? Do I just have to admit that anarchism is not going to happen no matter how much I pine for it?

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about this sort of thing like @David Flin, @The Red @Mumby etc can help share some knowledge and enlighten us.
 
Is there anything to Grand Duke Michael taking the throne? The Tsarist regime was massively and justifiably unpopular, but as I understand it one of the problems with the provisional government was the lack of clarity about what was actually being fought for.
If they could have said right from February that they were going to build a democratic Russia with a constitutional monarch, could that have helped them forge the various factions caught between the ultra reactionaries and the far left into something more cohesive?
 
Let's assume that Lenin dies in 1916, a date I chose because it leaves the political situation in February 1917 basically the same (and him dying isn't unreasonable, because Lenin's health was never great). The first big change is that the preeminent Bolsheviks in Petrograd are Joseph Stalin, Lev Kamenev, and Matvei Muranov. They advocated for conditional support of the Provisional Government and the reunification of the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks. This position was actually fairly popular amongst the Bolsheviks, especially in the provinces where the small size of the revolutionary underground often forced Bolsheviks and Mensheviks to work together. IOTL this proposal was stopped by Lenin, but with him out of the way it would go through. However the Kerensky Offensive would still go through, and would provoke a July Days-style riot (although not one led by any party).

Without the Revolution the Kerensky government would survive a bit longer, but it's important to remember that Constituent Assembly elections were scheduled for November 12th. The results are likely to be somewhat similar to IOTL, with the Socialist Revolutionaries winning a majority of the seats, followed by the now-reformed RSDLP. The Kadets may do a little better without Bolshevik vote manipulation, but they still won't do well. The end result of this is a coalition government between the socialist parties that has the backing of the soviets (with SR leader Viktor Chernov as the leader).

This new government would face the task of not only creating a permanent government structure for Russia, but also fighting the war. This is where things get difficult. A large part of the SRs and Mensheviks supported the war, arguing that winning the war was necessary to defend the Revolution. However another faction in both parties (which ITTL would include many Bolsheviks) believed that the war was an imperialist venture and Russia should exit ASAP. This dispute would probably lead to a split in both parties. This could lead to a wide variety of scenarios, including counterrevolution, a socialist government that collapses into infighting, and or even a Russian government that manages to hold out until the war ends (which would probably involve the government fleeing east after the Germans take Petrograd).
 
Without the Revolution the Kerensky government would survive a bit longer, but it's important to remember that Constituent Assembly elections were scheduled for November 12th.

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of Kerensky postponing the elections indefinitely both out of expediency (the Germans now threatened Russia proper) and his own disregard for democracy when it threatened to undermine his authority. This could potentially be what kicks off an earlier, messier civil war with the Soviet trying to stick together in opposition to the provisional govt and/or army loyalists, ironically leading to a situation where the Whites are the unified, more disciplined force against the disparate and disorganised Reds. Perfect territory for @Youngmarshall's desired Makhnoist Eurasia to eventually arise from the ashes.
 
The 'Grand Duke Michael question' is intriguing, and unlike Nicholas Michael was a potential focus for trust by the moderates in the Duma as an unknown quantity who had no 'hard-line' conservative record or was disliked as a reputed playboy or spendthrift. He had been living quietly and modestly and keeping out of politics since his return to Russia to help with the war effort in 1914 - though until then he had been in disgrace with Nicholas and the court 'hard-liners' for letting the Imperial Family down by marrying (1912) a divorced middle-class woman, Nathalie Wulfert, who had children by a previous marriage and a bastard son by Michael, George, born before their marriage. They had had to go abroad to marry as the Czar had refused to allow the marriage as illegal under Orthodox Church law (which did not recognise divorce), and until 1914 had mostly been living in the UK - as of July 1914 Michael had leased the country house in Sussex which is now Worth Abbey school. Michael, ten years younger than Nicholas and until his marriage an easy-going and unpolitical Guards officer, was dismissed by his siblings and at court until then as an unpolitical 'lightweight' of no importance, and apart from his standing up to his brother over the marriage was not known for any strength of character or political interests/skill. This made him a 'blank slate' on which people could pin their hopes though the Church and conservatives disliked him, so he could have been a crucial 'figurehead' for a new regime in February 1917 had he been a stronger character or interested in 'doing his duty' to save the dynasty. In the event, by the time N finally abdicated and ruled out his son Alexei as heir, the majority of the Duma and the crowds in St Petersburg were expecting the end of the dynasty, the troops could not be relied on to rally to the Crown, and Michael changed his mind after an initial acceptance and declined the throne. He appears to have taken soundings among the senior Duma moderates and decided to accept their advice that political stability and his personal safety could not be guaranteed and announcing him as Czar could spark off more riots and cause stronger popular rallying to the Social Revolutionaries and other militant republicans (probably prompted by the self-assembled new Soviet ie workers' / soldiers' council at the Tauride Palace in St Petersburg, which could call on regimental agitators for help). This could sweep the new Provisional Govt away; without any Czar the PG stood a better chance as it could win popular goodwill as a 'new start' and republican.

Possibly a stronger, more determined, and better-known Michael would have stood a better chance or he could have risked the wrath of the Soviet and the troops/ workers; as it was he did not even try. The unknown is whether the politicians who advised him were too scared of another outbreak and the fall of the precarious new regime created by the Duma to rally to him, and if this would have been so if he had tried to make a stand. Possibly his late older brother Grand Duke George (d 1898), a cleverer and more sensitive figure who had died of TB as a young man and was trusted more by Nicholas (closer to him in age), would have stood a better chance had he been alive and of good reputation. There were some liberal Grand Dukes like Nicholas' cousin (and his sister's husband) Alexander Michaelovitch , who had been advising N strongly to get rid of his wife and her advisers and proclaim a new democratic govt in Jan-Feb 1917 but been ignored, to back him up - and the British ambassador Buchanan who had backed Alexander and advised N similarly but been snubbed. (The British aim was to avoid chaos that would push Russia out of the war and help Germany; it has been suggested recently that the M16 agents in St P tried to help this cause by involvement with or even suggesting the killing of the hated Rasputin in Dec 1916.)

The state of the St P garrison in Feb 1917 was crucial as they could have rallied to Michael and put down a rising before it went too far, or at least rallied to a new govt that declared for a govt responsible to the elected Duma plus a constitution and forthcoming elections. Most of the most loyal and respected middle-ranking officers and the usual pre-1914 regimental and garrison junior ranks had been sent off to the Front in 1914-16 and many of them had been killed, with brave but naive upper-class officers 'leading from the front' (as with the British officer elite) and getting mown down by German machine-guns - especially at the Prussian battles of Tannenburg/ Masurian Lakes in aut 1914 and in the 'Great Retreat' across Poland of
1915. The Feb 1917 garrison in St P was a mixture of hastily-promoted junior, outsider officers who did not know their men and rural peasant conscripts; this disintegrated or revolted easier than the old, 1914 garrison would have. Had more of the 1914 Guards and garrison troops been in place , I can see them rallying to a respected liberal new Czar - though this would have been easier had the Czar decided to abdicate or appoint a leading liberal as Prime Minister with extraordinary powers a few days earlier, when the situation had not gone so far for a republican outcome or the Soviet not assembled. As it was, N was out of touch at army HQ (Stavka) and then shunting around the rail lines trying to get back to Tsarskoe Selo and unable to be reached. If the military mutiny is smaller and suppressed, the street riots could be defeated by a united army - with the Palace Square or the square in front of the Tauride Palace (Duma HQ) as the equivalent of Tienanmen Square 1989?

Given the attempts to persuade N to declare a 'responsible' govt led by the Duma and plan other confidence-building measures ahead of the Revolution, it seems that assorted Grand Dukes (led by Alexander), ambassador Buchanan, and others were trying to push N into doing something that would abort a rising but he refused to act - as usual. (Had he not been acting as army commander at HQ, he would have been easier to reach at Tsarskoe Selo.) The outspoken mother of his next heir after Michael, his first cousin Grand Duke Cyril, Marie Pavlovna (by birth German), even spoke vaguely of organising a coup with the Guards (Cyril commanded a regiment and hurried to declare allegiance to the Provisional Govt in the OTL Revolution) to push the unwilling Nicholas out of the way and pack his ultra-conservative, obstructive wife Alexandra into a convent. This was prevented by the actual outbreak of revolt and there had been talk of a military coup before, but it is a leading 'What If' of 1917 - and had the regimental elite been in better shape and their troops been long-serving and loyal ones it might have worked. Or if the destructive influence of Alexandra had been removed - say, by a nervous breakdown after Rasputin was murdered - Nicholas, who was once referred to as like a cushion as he followed the advice of the last person to sit on him, could have listened to his relatives and formed a new govt. This might then have failed to solve problems or defeat Germany in 1917 and annoyed soldiers mutinied later - but it would have given Russia a breathing-space or made the moderates stronger.

Even if military disaster impels Russia to a humiliating truce and disorder later, any elections or popular uprising in late 1917 or 1918 could benefit the SRs not the much smaller Bolsheviks and if Lenin has not been let back into Russia by Germany he would be unable to profit from a rising. That way, a Bolshevik rising is 'too little too late' like the Luxembourg group's rising in Germany, it goes the way of the July Days in OTL, and it would be a case of the SRs vs the Army and scared moderates (a bit like Germany 1919?).
 
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