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1145: if Louis VII and Eleanor of Aquitaine had had sons

Aznavour

Well-known member
Published by SLP
King Louis VII Capet (1120-1180) was part of a long line of Louises who struggled with asserting royal control against their overmighty vassals, a problem compounded by the fact that said vassals had larger holdings, treasuries and armies. Hence the marriage to Eleanor of Aquitaine (1122-1204), whose dowry was half of France.

The marriage produced two daughters, a couple of wars, a burnt church filled with refugees , a failed crusade and eventually an annulment after 15 years.

Later she married Henry II (1133-1189), became Queen of England and birthed a count and three kings of varying authority and quality. This marriage produced Richard the Lionhearted, whereas Louis’ third marriage gave France Philip Augustus.

But what if she had produced a Capet heir to Inherit both the Crown and Aquitaine? I guess a lot depends on the quality of the hypothetical Philip II (or Louis VIII) who’s born 20 years before his historical counterpart. Although he’d have the advantage of decades of experience co-ruling with his father, his mother’s inheritance and Eleanor herself.

Across the Channel the Plantagenets lose out on Aquitaine and the Angevin Empire, plus there’s a bigger X Factor in finding an alternate Queen and mother of the next generation.



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The Plantagenets would still have had the inheritance of Normandy , which Henry II's father Count Geoffrey had conquered from his wife Empress Matilda's rival King Stephen of England in the early 1140s, plus Maine (sandwiched between Normandy and Anjou and an on-off vassal of N or A long before Henry II's reign) and the overlordship of Brittany, so a substantial state - though now open to attack from the South in Poitou if Louis hangs onto that.

Louis might still divorce Eleanor due to a breakdown of personal relations and incompatibility (his piety and dislike for her having any friendships with other men, eg her uncle Roger of Antioch on the Second Crusade, was was reputedly well underway before they split up and he was both 'controlling' and jealous so the fiery E could well walk out on him). But he would insist that insist that if he was to get the Church to agree to a divorce and then back her as duchess of Aquitaine against her turbulent nobles and help secure it for their son, the next king of France ('Louis IX, born c. 1146'?), or a hypothetical second son, she had to stay single or only marry a new husband with his approval. He had a contested legal right to do this as her overlord, though Aquitaine autonomists always resisted the French crown's interfering and did not regard A as a full vassal of the French King. Aquitaine nobles would have been as resistant to a merger of France and A under one man as sidelining their rights as they were to any merging of England/ Normandy and A by Henry II and Eleanor for one son of theirs in real life - when Henry and Eleanor agreed to keep it separate from England/N and let their second surviving son, Richard (ie our Richard I) inherit it while the elder son, Henry 'the Young King', had England/ N/ Anjou. It would be easier for the future relations of France and Aquitaine if Eleanor had had two sons by Louis, so she could keep A separate from the French crown - and if L did not want that and won their elder son over to demand that he have Aquitaine as well as France, either E or a local noble plot could secure Aquitaine for her second son when Louis died (1180 in OTL). Then Henry II would come into the picture again, by assisting Aquitaine against the new king of France; but the new duke of Aquitaine, and before him Louis in the 1170s, could also provide stronger than OTL aid to Henry's own rebel sons in a civil war over the succession to England and Normandy.

As for Henry, whether he marries Eleanor or she stays with Louis so he has to find an alternative wife (from his German Welf allies or from Castile or Aragon to threaten Aquitaine from the S?), he now has to find inheritances for his brood of restless sons with no Aquitaine to offer them. If they are Louis VII's stepsons and/or 'Louis IX's half-brothers, that makes it even more complicated and increases the chance of a rebel son of Henry's getting strong French aid against his father - and securing Anjou or even Normandy in a break-up of the Angevin state in c. 1174? But if Henry still offers England, N, and Anjou to his eldest son, does the second (Richard I) now get Brittany with its heiress Constance as his wife, or does her go after another local French ducal or comital sub-state - difficult, as at this date all except Boulogne had male rulers with sons so except in B there is no heiress with rich lands to be secured for a son of Henry's. In OTL Henry does not seem to have bothered thinking of annexing any of the Welsh states, which were his supposed vassals but lacked 'up to date' knightly elites and many castles and were treated as of less importance provided that they paid up in tribute and troops. So would he use the Anglo-Norman 'Welsh Marcher' incursion into E Ireland in 1169-70 and forced 'inheritance' of Leinster/ Dublin by the earl of Pembroke to take on Ireland in a stronger way, setting up a full and better-settled kingdom there for son 2 (Richard) or 3 (Geoffrey) not the real-life, younger and more wayward son 4 (John)? Or would the 'culturally French chivalric elite' glory-seeker Richard look down on the Irish as 'uncivilised' (no towns, no castles, few modern weapons) as John did and go off against his father's orders to secure a Continental heiress or even head out to the Kingdom of Jerusalem to join his ruling cousins there? (If R does not have Aquitaine, he does not have the military manpower or resources to take on his older brother, Henry the Young King - so his best chance of staying in England is of the YK revolting to try to depose Henry II and dying as in OTL 1183.)

We might end up with Henry the YK surviving and succeeding Henry II as the timeline of their relationship is different, or with the YK and Richard fighting over Anjou with the king of France backing R to break up the Angevin realm. And even less for John to inherit unless he keeps his head down and waits for an older brother to die (or helps them on their way...) But in this scenario I can see the OTl offer of the heirship to Jerusalem to Henry II or his sons in 1185 - the leper king Baldwin IV was dying , his heir was an infant nephew, and Saladin was preparing for war) ending with either Richard or his next brother Geoffrey being sent out there or going willingly. Less chance for John, as he was only 18 and had no military experience. So we end up with Richard as regent of Jerusalem for Baldwin V after B IV dies in 1185, and possibly married off to B IV's half-sister Isabella (b 1171, so 14 years younger than him), and a struggle between Richard and BIV's other sister Sibylla's husband Guy of Lusignan for power - with R far the better general and more charismatic so likely to win. So we have Richard as king of Jerusalem, and he is likely to be able to fight off Saladin's attack in 1187 as he was very unlikely to be caught in a trap at the Horns of Hattin as Guy was in OTL. No Third Crusade, Richard setting up his dynasty in Jerusalem, and Henry the YK and Geoffrey or John fighting over a weaker Anglo-Norman-Angevin state in the 1190s? In this case, if Aquitaine has stayed with the French royal family not been detached by autonomist barons (in the name of Eleanor and Louis VII's second son?), the Capetians are likely to have the resources to detach England's French dominions easier than they did even if they do not face the unpopular John (who in OTL was under suspicion of murdering Geoffrey's son and heir Arthur). A nice 'Game of Thrones' style inter-dynastic mess suitable for a modern TV series?
 
That would be a pretty cool TV series.

If Eleanor gives Louis a son, it’s possible he won’t be so hard on her and the marriage won’t break down the way it did. That probably leads to a more powerful France earlier than OTL, as her territories will remain attached to his. But that’s boring.

Assuming she does demand a separation and marries Henry, we have a strong family tie between her and her first son (and, assuming she has the same kids as OTL), her later kids too. How would that work out for her? It might be tricky because her territory would, in theory, go to her oldest son after his death; she might not be able to have Richard going to take his place. It would be one hell of a tangled mess.

Chris
 
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