What next if american revolution fails? will someone else tries to do a 2nd revolution?? would GEorge Washing ton and the others ge thunged??
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American revolution fails??
- Thread starter Elephant_trail
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See "For the Want of a Nail" by Robert Sobel - or "The King Shall Have His Own", volume two of my "House of Stuart Sequence"
Thank/george-kearton.
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Depends an awful lot on how it fails and what London does next. An early collapse will probably see a harsher treatment to some ringleaders than a later drawn out negotiated failure.
SteveBP
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An 1000 year Golden Age in which the sun really does never set on the Empire but the capital ends up moving from London to New York
Walpurgisnacht
It was in the Year of Maximum Danger
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Turtledove, get off SteveBP's account.
General Mosh
Member
I haven't read For Want of a Nail or George's House of Stuart sequence, though both are on my list, so I don't know how they deal with this issue. But one...erm...interesting, we'll go with interesting. One interesting thing about the colonies remaining in the Empire is the knock-on effects on the British Empire's abolition of slavery. I suspect the fight will be a lot more nasty this time around, and I suspect there might be another revolution.
Or, as we're talking alternatives, perhaps a pragmatic restored Stuart monarchy abolishes slavery in the 1780's ? Massive consequences including no American Civil War as we know it......(see later volumes of Stuart Sequence)
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”Failed American Revolution” is a much bigger ask than “No American Revolution” in my eyes. The specific circumstances that led the Americans to revolt - as, effectively, a union even before the union was legally constituted - did not have to occur, and were very much driven by the events in the leadup to and aftermath of the Boston Crisis.
If the American Revolution as we know it does fail at some stage, it really does matter when and how. If it fails because some of the traditional colonies side with Parliament, or because the Continental Army collapses, or the French decide (probably wisely from their point of view) to avoid getting involved, all will lead to different circumstances.
I can’t imagine a serious Revolution - certainly one after mid-1776 - failing not being a thing that lays seeds for another war the next time a major war breaks out in Europe, or over the next time Parliament gets especially ”Intolerable” with its Acts, like, say, if they wanted to abolish slavery. Whereas if the Revolution fails at a very early stage - before the War gets going, because perhaps Virginia refuses to get involved, and it becomes a minor localized revolt in New England, swiftly contained by the British Army - I could see that revolt being a mere footnote in the history of colonies that stayed part of the British Empire in some form, probably eventually evolving into a form alike to dominion status (though not quite that; dominion status as it was formatted OTL was very much reliant on the specific conditions of British North America bordering the United States, which then became a model for other dominions elsewhere that continued with the same precedents despite lacking those particular conditions), or, more likely, in my eyes, a series of separate dominions, possibly never properly federated.
Or, for that matter, it could break out into Revolution at a later stage, even without the inspiration of an earlier, failed revolution; avoiding a collapse of the First British Empire due to the Boston Crisis is not a guarantee that some other crisis won’t occur to destroy the First British Empire — though perhaps at a late enough date that there’s not as much of a clear line to be drawn as has been by historians between the First British Empire and the Second British Empire.
If the American Revolution as we know it does fail at some stage, it really does matter when and how. If it fails because some of the traditional colonies side with Parliament, or because the Continental Army collapses, or the French decide (probably wisely from their point of view) to avoid getting involved, all will lead to different circumstances.
I can’t imagine a serious Revolution - certainly one after mid-1776 - failing not being a thing that lays seeds for another war the next time a major war breaks out in Europe, or over the next time Parliament gets especially ”Intolerable” with its Acts, like, say, if they wanted to abolish slavery. Whereas if the Revolution fails at a very early stage - before the War gets going, because perhaps Virginia refuses to get involved, and it becomes a minor localized revolt in New England, swiftly contained by the British Army - I could see that revolt being a mere footnote in the history of colonies that stayed part of the British Empire in some form, probably eventually evolving into a form alike to dominion status (though not quite that; dominion status as it was formatted OTL was very much reliant on the specific conditions of British North America bordering the United States, which then became a model for other dominions elsewhere that continued with the same precedents despite lacking those particular conditions), or, more likely, in my eyes, a series of separate dominions, possibly never properly federated.
Or, for that matter, it could break out into Revolution at a later stage, even without the inspiration of an earlier, failed revolution; avoiding a collapse of the First British Empire due to the Boston Crisis is not a guarantee that some other crisis won’t occur to destroy the First British Empire — though perhaps at a late enough date that there’s not as much of a clear line to be drawn as has been by historians between the First British Empire and the Second British Empire.
In the House of Stuart Sequence an American Revolution doesn't happen, not least because the British and French come to an agreement about exchanging French colonies in North America for British spheres of influence in India. Slavery does, of course, enter the equation with the British abolishing the institution much earlier but not without some tensions involving George Washington at Yorktown. Not surprisingly this also affects the course of revolutionary activity in France and the career of a certain army officer called Bonaparte..........
Definitely - see volumes two and three of my House of Stuart Sequence.
Stikfigur
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The British certainly won't go nearly as hard in expanding colonies for cotton, as it's supply is not from a foreign country. I guess the whole thing is how will the issue of slavery and the Southern Planters pan out.
See my post #11 on this thread for a possible outcome.........
In my House of Stuart Sequence (volumes three and four) very different French Revolution, Stuarts inherit Spain by marriage, Germany partially united but is then conquered by a resurgent Russia.....
History Learner
Well-known member
Without the success of the Revolution, the Crown-backed Slave trade will not slow down from 1780-1805 and it is likely you will see Slavery become entrenched in the OTL Midwest (Illinois and Indiana in particular) and in the Middle Atlantic (New Jersey and New York in particular). New England will also not be as likely to go Anti-Slavery, since much of the trade was through their shipping industry.
Events don't happen in isolation though. Without an American Revolution many things could have changed - such is the nature of alternative history.
History Learner
Well-known member
Indeed, which is what I'm suggesting here; historically the new United States (via the individual states) restricted slavery importation legally in this era but here the continued-British rule will likely see the Crown preventing such since they were tied into the trade via politics (and I think money). This higher influx of slaves compared to OTL will see the practice further rather than become restricted to the OTL South as per OTL.