AH challenge: A different dress code for politicians in liberal democracies

[Hendryk]

In OTL, most people running for high-level elective office in liberal democracies essentially dress like bankers, unless they are seeking to attract the protest vote. International gatherings of statespeople are visually undistinguishable from board meetings; almost the only ones who dare deviate from that strict dress code are those who don't have to run for open election (and they often end up looking like James Bond villains anyway).

This is all the more remarkable as, meanwhile, the corporate world has become increasingly comfortable with "executive casual", and the hoodie seems to have become the default outfit for Silicon Valley businesspeople.

What divergence might plausibly have resulted in liberal democratic regimes allowing their mainstream political figures more originality in their clothing?

 

[theev]

In OTL, most people running for high-level elective office in liberal democracies essentially dress like bankers, unless they are seeking to attract the protest vote. International gatherings of statespeople are visually undistinguishable from board meetings; almost the only ones who dare deviate from that strict dress code are those who don't have to run for open election (and they often end up looking like James Bond villains anyway).

This is all the more remarkable as, meanwhile, the corporate world has become increasingly comfortable with "executive casual", and the hoodie seems to have become the default outfit for Silicon Valley businesspeople.

What divergence might plausibly have resulted in liberal democratic regimes allowing their mainstream political figures more originality in their clothing?

Interesting question, and one that I don't have an answer to. But, I remember back on ah.com Georgepatton, I believe, had a wikibox series about a divided America and all of one of the nation's politicians dressed like Revolutionary War re-enactors out of some jingoistic posterity.

 

[Alex Richards]

I think the simplest way of doing this is to have some sort of mandated 'court dress' for legislatures when they're established that could end up gradually slimming down. In Britain this was traditionally morning dress (top hats and all) which gradually relaxed down to simply 'business dress', though IIRC early Labour MPs attempted to get a sort of 'Sunday best' arrangement sorted.

I think theoretically you could have something extended from the traditional robes of the Speaker, the Lord Chancellor and the Peers (at least during the state opening of Parliament) in the form of some sort of light 'day cloak' that signifies the office which would allow for the clothes worn underneath it to change with the fashion of things more rapidly. There's probably similar mechanisms for other countries.

In terms of contemporary casualness, it's worth remembering that to a great extent the way how politicians dress is fundamentally shaped by public attitudes to things. 20 years ago any sort of public-facing role or management role would have been viewed as needing to have the full suit/business dress even in business. Even 10 years ago shirt and tie was basically obligatory for any form of office wear. There's a generational and regional divide in this as well- Mum's pretty senior management and was aghast at how casual the head office down in London was when she went visiting, and certainly round my neck of the woods there's a strong view that 'business casual is allowed inside the company, but if you're meeting anyone from outside it needs to be shirt and tie' - and we're a company where half the workforce is walking around in lab coats/overalls all day.

For many people a politician in a suit is as much a 'you respect the public' as a 'you are dressing smart' aspect- just see how much criticism people like Trump, Corbyn or Rees-Mogg have gotten for appearing to 'disrespect' the job through dressing inappropriately. Maybe in another decade or two when enough voters are comfortable with the idea legislators will be more casual but it's a big lag on things.

 

[Tabac Iberez]

The first person to suggest that Native Americans go back to the feathered headdress and assorted regalia may kindly take a flying leap into the I-75 Cincinnati corridor. Those are hot, breathe well under only two conditions, and in several instances are known to cause migraines if improperly constructed and repaired. The entire reason the three piece became standard, @Hendryk, is because it has the combination of ease of wear, formality, and ease of repair. Any concept you might want to push needs to both recognizably exist, and then more importantly not need two weeks of deportment classes so you don't faceplant because there's a stray twig.

 

[Roger II]

Also that is...something I assume you'd only wear on special occasions to begin with. That said, can beadwork make a comeback?

 

[AltonCarroll]

Many Native leaders would disagree. The simplest way to get away from western formal dress is to have a POD with fewer western victories and dominance.

CONAIE Ecuador


Evo Morales, not a western suit is ever worn.


Ass'y of First Nations Canada

 

[Alex Richards]

I mean in essence that is the 'political statement' element already discussed above, but even so it's worth pointing out that you are essentially looking at an adaptation of western formal dress to create a more relaxed 'business casual' style of dress. Note how many of those people are basically wearing a western formal shirt but without the jacket or tie, while Morales is modelled closer to the 'Nehru jacket' style. These are people adapting western dress and aiming for something more modern/less formal to distinguish themselves and seem more approachable. Which yes is within the spirit of the question but doesn't really address how you make the leap from that group to the more widespread adoption of such trends.

Less western victories (politically or culturally) certainly would lead to less widespread western formal dress, but it's likely this just means you see traditional local formal dress endure instead (i.e. Chinese politicians would be expected to either wear a Mandarin's uniform or the more elaborate robes). Again an interesting possibility but one that's going to intersect with the drive for more 'wearable' clothing over time.

 

[AltonCarroll]

Nehru shirts are just the opposite. They were western fashion modeled on Indian (from India) tradition.

It may look like a Nehru to you, but AFAIK it's all NDN in design. The way he dresses is just like the locals, everyday casual wear, and added to his popularity.


Ribbon shirts go back at least 300 years. The silk came from French traders, but the designs are all NDN.



There are examples of NDNs using western fashion, and from other places like the Mideast.

 

[Roger II]

I think the agreement is more or less that you'd see something that was simplified, but from different models?

 

[Roger II]

(nb. the ribbon shirt seems like something that would be quite easy to wear on a regular basis as business wear/something that would roughly fill the role of a nice suit jacket OTL). Also, to elaborate: What I assume is happening here is that you'd have things like e.g. a shift from materials that require complex care and storage to stuff that can largely be stored without precautions(somewhat like the shift towards linen and cotton in western formal dress away from clothes that require elaborate storage or treatment), more shift away from complex multi-part forms of clothing and toward either removing items or more stuff that's made in one piece. There's also the fact that in a world without forced cultural assimilation it will be easier to make these adaptations because it's "we can use this new material or technique to make this easier to wear" not 'YOU CANNOT WEAR THIS ANYMORE BECAUSE IT IS NOT WHAT YOU SHOULD WEAR"-for instance, the OTL shift from quillwork to seed beads, or a hypothetical case where decoration is far cheaper because block printing on a mass scale is used(honestly, without Beau Brummell I think this would become a very Big Thing).

EDIT: it's worth pointing out that modern Western formal wear is itself a simplification of Victorian and older formal dress-see the shift away from frockcoats and tailcoats on a regular basis to shorter jackets that you can sit down in easily, the demise of the waistcoast beyond "vaugely foppish fashion statement" and so on.

 

[Hendryk]

EDIT: it's worth pointing out that modern Western formal wear is itself a simplification of Victorian and older formal dress-see the shift away from frockcoats and tailcoats on a regular basis to shorter jackets that you can sit down in easily, the demise of the waistcoast beyond "vaugely foppish fashion statement" and so on.

Which makes me wonder at which point the necktie might transition from "customary part of serious attire" to "vaguely foppish fashion statement" as well.

 

[Alex Richards]

Of course much of this simplification is down to the age of industrial-scale manufacture of clothing meaning manufacturers are driving towards the more simple side of things as well.

Earlier trends often saw a variation between simple and elaborate clothing. Does make me wonder whether in 50 years time we'll be seeing some sort of big move towards 'buy locally made clothing - yes it's more expensive but also we can make it so much more unique' that sees embroidered shirts or fancy cuffs make a comeback.

 

[Warthog]

Chinese politicians would be expected to either wear a Mandarin's uniform or the more elaborate robes

A hot-weather version of Chinese jackets became popular in Zambia and Tanzania in the 70s.

Wore my dad's one for citizenship ceremony

 

[Hendryk]

A hot-weather version of Chinese jackets became popular in Zambia and Tanzania in the 70s.

Wore my dad's one for citizenship ceremony

I didn't know that. Would you happen to have any pictures?

Modified Zhongshan suits finding their way into the wardrobe of other countries and becoming accepted attire for professionals sounds like a nice idea.

 

[Warthog]

I didn't know that. Would you happen to have any pictures?

Modified Zhongshan suits finding their way into the wardrobe of other countries and becoming accepted attire for professionals sounds like a nice idea.

Afraid the actual garment died of extreme old age in the 90s. Will have a look at my [checks records] slides

 

[Hendryk]

I'm reminded of the satirical 1970s AH comedy Les Chinois à Paris, in which France is invaded (without a shot fired) by the PLA and much of the population cheerfully adopts Maoist fashion.

 

[Max Sinister]

What about the Steve Jobs look?

 

[Roger II]

Which makes me wonder at which point the necktie might transition from "customary part of serious attire" to "vaguely foppish fashion statement" as well.

I am not sure how easy it is to go without "something to hold a collar tight" in formaler settings but already for business casual-type stuff/going out in the evening fewer people are going full coat and tie and I ahve at least one professor who wears a suit without a necktie although it stands out.

EDIT: To be clear I mean the professor wears a suit without a necktie in class.

 

[Warthog]

I am not sure how easy it is to go without "something to hold a collar tight" in formaler settings but already for business casual-type stuff/going out in the evening fewer people are going full coat and tie and I ahve at least one professor who wears a suit without a necktie although it stands out.

Meaning the other professors all wear ties? In the evenings?

 

[Roger II]

oooof clarified above.