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The Fall of the Republic (Revolutionary Period)

Venocara

God Save the King.
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After 1783, before or after the signing of the Constitution (but bonus points for after, and even more bonus points for after 1800), what is the most plausible (yet interesting) way to have the United States completely collapse, into three or more independent nations?
 
Have Washington lose out on the Army Command to Charles Lee in 1775 for a Pre-1783 POD.

Having the Burr Plot actually lead the frontier out of the Union and into Louisiana and Texas and creating a new country is the most interesting way to kill it IMO.
 
Have Washington lose out on the Army Command to Charles Lee in 1775 for a Pre-1783 POD.

I don't know much about this Charles Lee, but I do know that one of the biggest reasons why Washington got the job is because he was born in the Americas and he was willing to work without pay, which are two traits that Lee lacked. Nevertheless, how would having Charles Lee as Army Command lead to the failure of the Revolution?

Having the Burr Plot actually lead the frontier out of the Union and into Louisiana and Texas and creating a new country is the most interesting way to kill it IMO.

How would Burr even be able to create this state? And how would it lead to the fall of the United States?
 
I've had an idea though: could James Wilkinson's plots to remove Kentucky and Tennessee from the Union and have them annexed to Spain work?
 
I would have assumed the easiest way is to have the Constitutional Convention fail, and for the US to be left with the useless Articles of Confederation under which the States were essentially independent countries only very loosely aligned. Let the first big crisis come along-the Napoleonic Wars for example, and id imagine the whole facade would fall down.

After 1800? How about the War of 1812 going worse than it did in OTL, which might fracture the fragile unity of the country? (If the British occupy more of the country, you might end up with some states who were less than enthusiastic about the war in the first place, making separate attempts to sue for peace)
 
I would have assumed the easiest way is to have the Constitutional Convention fail, and for the US to be left with the useless Articles of Confederation under which the States were essentially independent countries only very loosely aligned. Let the first big crisis come along-the Napoleonic Wars for example, and id imagine the whole facade would fall down.

What form would the collapse of the United States take in this scenario?
 
What form would the collapse of the United States take in this scenario?

Well i, given that under the Articles the US was barely a country and more of a loose international agreement, that it just dies out gradually as the Articles are given less and less credence by its members, as they start to conduct their own foreign policies, run their own economies etc.

So essentially, it just gets ignored until it eventually either gets forgotten about or some lawyers manage to formally abolish it at some point as a legal afterthought.
 
Well i, given that under the Articles the US was barely a country and more of a loose international agreement, that it just dies out gradually as the Articles are given less and less credence by its members, as they start to conduct their own foreign policies, run their own economies etc.

So essentially, it just gets ignored until it eventually either gets forgotten about or some lawyers manage to formally abolish it at some point as a legal afterthought.

I have to say that it is an interesting idea, one that I will give some deep thought towards.

Do you have ideas for a more explosive implosion of the United States?
 
I have to say that it is an interesting idea, one that I will give some deep thought towards.

Do you have ideas for a more explosive implosion of the United States?

One good way of taking advantage of the weak situation the US would be in if left with the Articles of Confederation rather than a constitution, is that there would not be very strong rules preventing states having their own foreign or economic policies.

This is why i think, in the event the Constitutional Convention fails, the Napoleonic Wars would be the ideal chance to demonstrate how useless the Articles are-you could have some of the more Pro British, trading colonies like New York refusing to go along with the more pro French or more accurately, pro Neutrality states, and siding with the British (either formally or informally). This would immediately fracture the unity of the former colonies.
 
One good way of taking advantage of the weak situation the US would be in if left with the Articles of Confederation rather than a constitution, is that there would not be very strong rules preventing states having their own foreign or economic policies.

This is why i think, in the event the Constitutional Convention fails, the Napoleonic Wars would be the ideal chance to demonstrate how useless the Articles are-you could have some of the more Pro British, trading colonies like New York refusing to go along with the more pro French or more accurately, pro Neutrality states, and siding with the British (either formally or informally). This would immediately fracture the unity of the former colonies.

Could this type of situation lead to a Decades of Darkness-like War of 1811, only with the total collapse of the Union?
 
Perhaps you could give examples from actual history, I've never read Decades of Darkness. So your example doesn't mean anything to me?

You really should read it - you're missing out.

Basically, the OTL Embargo Act leads to New England (including New York and New Jersey) seceding from the Union helped along by British forces. Much like OTL's War of 1812, only much, much worse for the United States. It could be made even worse however with the loss of Louisiana (possibly if New Orleans is captured), or the Floridas.
 
I too have not read Decades of Darkness so i cannot comment.

Another potential issue could be to make Slavery more of a divisive issue, earlier than in OTL.

In OTL, even in the southern states, it was tacitly accepted that Slavery was on its way out-this is why there was relatively little outcry when the US agreed to a treaty in the early days, banning the importation of slaves.

It was only the invention of the Cotton Gin by Eli Whitney in the 1790s, that Slavery became economically viable again-and from there, the tensions that ultimately resulted in the civil war started to grow, exacerbated by the growth of the union and the addition of new states.

If you can have a POD being simply the earlier invention of the Cotton Gin. then you potentially bring forward the emergence of North-South tensions over slavery.
 
I too have not read Decades of Darkness so i cannot comment.

Another potential issue could be to make Slavery more of a divisive issue, earlier than in OTL.

In OTL, even in the southern states, it was tacitly accepted that Slavery was on its way out-this is why there was relatively little outcry when the US agreed to a treaty in the early days, banning the importation of slaves.

It was only the invention of the Cotton Gin by Eli Whitney in the 1790s, that Slavery became economically viable again-and from there, the tensions that ultimately resulted in the civil war started to grow, exacerbated by the growth of the union and the addition of new states.

If you can have a POD being simply the earlier invention of the Cotton Gin. then you potentially bring forward the emergence of North-South tensions over slavery.

Ok. If the invention of the cotton gin was brought forward 10 years, and the invention of Fones McCarthy's gin brought into the 18th century, could this cause an irrevocable split between North and South whilst the Union is still weak, potentially as early as the 1810s?
 
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Having done a quick Google search, I found some related stuff on the other place.

Could this scenario regarding an alternate end to the Revolutionary War (albeit with Wilkinson's detachment of Kentucky and Tennessee) work?

2020-01-23 (1).png
 
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