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Scenes We'd Like To See: Alternate Movies, Television & Other Pop Culture Miscellanea

CountZingo

Active member
I've had an idea kicking around for a while in which Arthur Conan Doyle emigrated to the United States as a child, and an American version of Sherlock Holmes is solving crimes in Boston or New York (Doyle's heritage was Irish Catholic). Here's some ideas I had for the broad strokes analogues of various Holmes books and stories.

A Study in Scarlet - It might follow similar lines as to the book, or it may change the location to avoid offending Mormons - perhaps the American West would be replaced by China, with the Taiping Rebellion being the Mormon analogues.
The Sign of Four - India would be replaced with the American West - it was the closest thing America had to "colonies" at that point.
The Hound of the Baskervilles - It might concern some creature from American folklore, such as the Jersey Devil, or it might be a creature of Doyle's imagination.
The Valley of Fear - It would probably be the same or similar to OTL.
The Final Problem - Reichenbach would be replaced by Niagara.

General Differences from the Books -
  • There obviously wouldn't be many references to nobility or royalty. Perhaps a Congressman or two could be mentioned, and if he's in New York one or two stories may be set in the estates along the Hudson River, but Holmes probably wouldn't be going to manors and country estates for most of the stories.
  • In America, the series would be received just as well, if not better. However, in Britain, the stories would not be nearly as popular. Historically, Doyle might be contrasted with Mark Twain - while Doyle wrote for more urban Americans, Twain wrote for rural Americans.
  • While the Holmes series was at its height, Theodore Roosevelt was Police Commissioner of New York. That means that TR might appear or at least be referenced in the Holmes stories. I'd certainly like to think that there's an alternate universe where a Holmes analogue and Roosevelt team up to solve some kind of mystery.
 
I've had an idea kicking around for a while in which Arthur Conan Doyle emigrated to the United States as a child, and an American version of Sherlock Holmes is solving crimes in Boston or New York (Doyle's heritage was Irish Catholic). Here's some ideas I had for the broad strokes analogues of various Holmes books and stories.
It'd be very fun as a "Sherlock Holmes... but not as you know him!" pastiche. Doyle's chief literary influence as far as Holmes was concerned was always Poe, after all.

I suppose one question, though, if you're going for plausibility with it, is whether Holmes exists at all if Doyle never meets and befriends Joseph Bell.
 

RyanF

Abbot of Unreason
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Martin Goodman was on the brink of shuttering Marvel in the early 60s, just as Fantastic Four and Spider-Man were starting to take off. There's a famous story about how Jack Kirby arrived at the office when the repo men were there trying to take out the furniture and started throwing out ideas like, "Let's bring back Captain America!" and "Let's bring back the Sub-Mariner!" to try and convince him to change his mind. I think DC (or something like it) endures, because Superman and Batman were still selling well (and the biggest selling comic of the 1940s going into the 1950s was still Captain Marvel Adventures even regardless of EC's success) but perhaps it settles into the pattern that most of the B-list publishers followed, which was assuming that comics had a five-year shelf life and consequently recycling and reprinting stories when the audience refreshed?

There's every chance that Marvel Comics just doesn't exist without superheroes, because the book that saved them was the Fantastic Four and that existed because (to the best of my recollection) Martin Goodman played golf with somebody at National Comics (whether it was Mort Weisinger or Julie Schwartz or somebody higher up the food chain, I don't know) and they were bragging about how they were making money hand over fist because they'd put all their biggest characters on the same team, so Goodman went back to the office and told Stan Lee to give him a version of that (which is why the cover copy for FF #1 says all the characters are "FINALLY together for the first time!" or something like that, because they wanted to sell it the same way National/DC was selling the JLA book).

(Reported in that old Chris Sims article I linked in my superhero comics top 10 list, which I imagine you've already read, but which I re-link here for anyone who didn't get seeing that list!)
Good points, if the market had been different Marvel probably would not have survived. Then there are a lot of knock-on effects through DC not having a chip on their shoulder for the subsequent six decades, do they pick up Captain America by the mid-60s I wonder.?
 

CountZingo

Active member
Oh- and literary scholars will generally assume that Theodore Roosevelt inspired not one but two of Doyle's characters- Inspector Lestrade and Sebastian Moran.
I don't know if Roosevelt would be as much of an influence on Lestrade - Lestrade was portrayed as a longtime policeman as well as somewhat incompetent.

It'd be very fun as a "Sherlock Holmes... but not as you know him!" pastiche. Doyle's chief literary influence as far as Holmes was concerned was always Poe, after all.

I suppose one question, though, if you're going for plausibility with it, is whether Holmes exists at all if Doyle never meets and befriends Joseph Bell.
With no Bell, an American Holmes might be less "rational" than the OTL one. That being said, however, there could easily be some kind of a US analogue to Bell.
 
Good points, if the market had been different Marvel probably would not have survived. Then there are a lot of knock-on effects through DC not having a chip on their shoulder for the subsequent six decades, do they pick up Captain America by the mid-60s I wonder.?
It's interesting to ponder. Cap was brought back, as I noted, partly because he'd been Marvel's most popular character in the Golden Age and reviving him brought back a much-needed boost. DC didn't particularly need Cap because they already had Superman. When DC was challenged, they bought the competition or they sued it out of the contest (and of course DC, along with Archie, later became the companies that pushed hardest for the CCA because it undermined their non-superhero competition).

They couldn't do that with Marvel because Marvel got too big too quickly, but one interesting factoid that Chris Sims doesn't mention in his article (which is fair, because he's focusing on the creative side of things rather than the business side) is that National Comics (or at least its parent company) was distributing Marvel's books in the Silver Age. That's why Marvel kept so many anthology titles going, even after Journey Into Mystery became the Thor book, Tales of Suspense became the Iron Man and Captain America book, Tales to Astonish became the Hulk book and Strange Tales was the Dr Strange and (curiously enough) Nick Fury book: because under the terms of their distribution agreement with National/DC, Marvel was only allowed to publish a certain number of different comics per month.

It's possible that DC picks up the Timely/Atlas/Marvel characters at some point as a catalogue purchase, as they did with Quality, Charlton, Fawcett et al. Perhaps you end up with some alternative version of Watchmen written by, say, Mark Gruenwald in the mid-1980s which uses the Golden Age Marvel characters (Captain America, Namor, Human Torch, Miss America, the Golden Age Vision etc.) instead of Alan Moore's Charlton pastiches? At the very least, there's no way Jack Kirby doesn't do something with himself even in the absence of Marvel in the 60s. He'd been in the game for more than 20 years when he co-created the Fantastic Four. He was already one of the most popular artists in the business before Marvel gave him the canvas to move up to a whole new level creatively.

Marvel almost went bankrupt in the late 70s until Archie Goodwin got them the Star Wars licence and those comics literally saved the company's life (how odd to think that Marvel Comics might not exist today if not for Star Wars, in a situation in which even substandard Marvel movies can make a billion dollars as a matter of course while the next Star Wars is going to flop). DC might have sought to acquire them then, because they'd have immense value from an IP perspective. Conversely, there was a point in the early 80s where it looke like Marvel might buy DC (John Byrne reportedly was in Shooter's office with his Superman pitch the second he heard about this).

With no Bell, an American Holmes might be less "rational" than the OTL one. That being said, however, there could easily be some kind of a US analogue to Bell.
Perhaps some odd gestalt of Dupin's "ratiocination" with Nick Carter.
 

Elephant_trail

Active member
Gone Fishing
In star trek 3 the original enterprise is never blown up. Spock is not killed in wrath of khan but disappeared third instalment is when they find him. no kolinar in McCoy's head. no bringing back spock from the dead. audiences seeing khan have to guess whether or not spock was killed. star trek 4 film savick tells kirk she is having David's love child, also Eddie murphy has a brief scene as a klinglon.producers were worried Eddie murphy would do to star trek what Richard pryor would do to superman.

Metalica.kiss black sabbath retire in 2004.members retire or do really good solo albums.
Pete Duel never does suicide in 1971 his western series lasts till 1975.
NO planet of apes sequels in 71 we get a series with Roddy McDowall. James francs George Furth.
 

RyanF

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Since it's 1954 release Godzilla has spawned some thirty-two sequels from Toho, as well as three American productions using the character (and a fourth in progress), and even some direct US adaptations of the Toho films with additional scenes inserted. While all this was happening the film that inspired Godzilla, The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, never saw a sequel or any remake revisiting the rampaging Rhedosaurus.

Now in the 1950s a sequel was not guaranteed even for successful films like The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, but is it possible that in some other universe a long running film series was begun from that film in the same way Godzilla did?

Perhaps someone at WB gets wind of the success of Godzilla in Japan and looks to have a sequel developed thinking lightning can strike twice, to hell with the fact the creature died at the end of the first - how many times was the Frankenstein monster caught in a burning windmill or laboratory at the end of the Universal pictures but returned the next time round? Or maybe Ray Harryhausen gets to work on Them! designing the giant ants using his Dynamation stop motion?

With two successes and a sequel to The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms presumably doing good business perhaps WB begin to take an interest in some of Harryhausen's ideas. Over at Columbia Charles Schneer was able to get several productions off the ground purely to showcase Harryhausen's effects in It Came from Beneath the Sea and 20 Million Miles to Earth, perhaps someone does something similar at WB to keep Harryhausen's work in house.

Perhaps by the late 1950s there is an option to do a film where the Rhedosaurus would battle the giant ants from Them!, or the giant octopus from It Came from Beneath the Sea, or the Ymir from 20 Million Miles to Earth. Perhaps WB are even able to get the rights to King Kong and remake it in the early 1960s, potentially leading to King Kong vs. The Beast.

However, it's difficult to see a franchise based on The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms having the longevity of Godzilla. Harryhausen might want to move on and do more fantasy based pictures like The 7th Voyage of Sinbad and Jason and the Argonauts. Perhaps Ray Bradbury objects to a film based on his short story "The Fog Horn" becoming the basis for a franchise from which he would likely see little profit. Or even the changing tastes that led to the giant monster pictures of the 1950s going out of fashion comes if only a few years later, and only a decade after it first made waves the WB kaiju series comes to an end.

Of course, nothing is ever truly dead in Hollywood whilst there still might be the potential for profit, just rest it for a little while. Does the franchise come back in the 1970s or 1980s with Rick Baker or Stan Winston handling the special effects? How about Roland Emmerich and Dean Devlin attempting one in the 1990s (arguably their effort at Godzilla was a more faithful remake of The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms than Godzilla)? With America having it's own giant monster that is not King Kong would J. J. Abrams not find his bollocks justification in making Cloverfield and instead try to do the Rhedosaurus? If cinematic universes still become a thing might Legendary Pictures do one based on the old US atomic monsters rather than Japanese kaiju?
 

Archibald

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I'm still waiting for a decent DBZ movie, and I have a plot.

the main issue with a Cell / Trunks DBZ movie is how convoluted is the time travel things. Plus Toriyama recognized he had to rethink the villain thrice: his bosses told him "C-20 and C-19 WTF ? an old man and a buddha puppet ? nope. So he retconed the villains into C-17, C-18 and C-16 - and was rebuked once again "WTF - two teenage nihilists and a punk ?" third time was the charm and Cell was born.
not easy to pass that into a movie script !

So ladies and gentlemen, here come -

Dragon Ball Z: Cell's game.

Movie opens with Trunks cutting Mecha-Frieza, his father Cold, and their soldiers, into bits. This done, Goku lands and spare with Trunks, who starts telling his own story.

Plan of Dr Gero (C-20) laboratory. Assisted by C-19 and his computer. With C-16, C-17 and C-18 frozen behind, in their sarcophagus. And a tiny Cell in a jar of water.

Split screen / Voice over

"Trunks knew only C-17 and C-18... little did he knew his own story was only one among several others..."

- In one universe... flashback of Goku falling ill to the ground grasping his heart in agony - followed by C-19 head and hands being blown by Vegeta... then shot of Gero C-20 head being crushed by C-17, with C-18 laughing hysterically - and an impassible C-16, looking at Cell jar with a concerned face... meanwhile a different Cell is seen killing Trunks and stealing his time machine...

- In yet another universe... same scene [flashback of Gero C-20 head being crushed by C-17, with C-18 laughing hysterically] - except no C-16 nor Cell jar in sight, followed by Goku burial and the Z-team massacred by C-17 & C-18, a grown Gohan included, with only Trunks as a survivor... time machine, Bulma... no Cell in sight... back to the present discussion with Goku

"you are not gonna die, takes these pills from my future, and you'll be fine."

Now the two universe have blended together. C-19 and C-20 are gone, but the three others have kicked the ass of the Z-team... but what's worse... a new threat is coming...

Cell vs Piccolo first encounter in Ginger town. Cell too weak runs away and escape by hiding his ki. Now the chase is on: one half of the Z-team is chasing Cell, Cell is chasing C-17 and C-18 to become perfect, C-17 and C-18 blissfully unaware of this are looking for a recovering Goku hiden by the other half of the Z-team, at Kami palace...

Roshi island, in the morning. With the Saiyens - a recovering Goku, Vegeta, Trunks and Gohan - training furiously at Kami Hyperbolic Time Chamber, the lower end of the Z-team - Piccolo, Yamcha, Krillin and Tienshinan * has been reduced to a frustrating chase of Cell hidding his ki while monitoring the cyborgs that are looking for Goku.

After weeks of playing hide and seek, the time of the fight has come.

Yamcha, Krillin and Tien are sleeping while Piccolo is watching the TV which shows Cell extended rampage. Even if they recognize the place, they can't react fast enough, and Piccolo is scowling with rage.

Three pairs of boots touch down on the beach. Piccolo yells to the others "the cyborgs are there ! " joined by Roshi and Chi-chi, the three humans and the Namek face their powerful adversaries. Only Piccolo stands a chance, so he taunts C-17 for a fight, and the four flies away. Then the phone ring, and Chi-chi come outside telling Bulma had build the remote and is coming ! Unable to stay still, Krillin liftoff to meet her. An angered Tienshinan decides to go helping Piccolo the best he could, even with his limited power.
Leaving Roshi in despair "I'm too old and not powerful to help... if only I was younger..." shot of Yamcha uneasy face.

next scene: a mind-blowing fight between Piccolo and C-17 serves no real purpose... except attracting Cell atention. "I found them !" Unbestknown to the three cyborgs, Piccolo, and Tien (waiting for the right moment to get the surprise effect), Imperfect Cell is now rushing toward them. He blast Piccolo, absorbs C-17, become more powerful Semi-Perfect-Cell, blast C-16, and prepares to absorb C-18 and get perfect at least.

---------

Tienshinhan is heroically restraining Cell using his lifeforce to keep him underground through kikohas. But he is dying fast. Meanwhile C-18 and and a damaged C-16 are using the diversion to escape.
Yamcha is unuseful as usual, standing like an idiot on Roshi island beach.
Piccolo is down and beaten at the bottom of the sea, after Cell blasted him and absorbed C-17.
Goku is recovering, Gohan is too young, they await Vegeta and Trunks to get out of the time chamber where they have trained like crazy.
Krillin has picked up the remote from Bulma and is flying to the fight, in the hope of desactivating them.

So Tien is holding Cell second form. Goku and Gohan are watching him die from Korin tower... Goku is hesitating... should I stay or should I go... with the Yardrat teleportation he could go instantly to the fight.

And there is the divergence. Split screens again.

In the original manga Goku went just in time to save a moribund Tien, pick up Piccolo from the sea, and taunt Cell "I will fight you later, I'm too weak. Provided of course Vegeta and Trunks don't kill you."

And ITTL Goku hesitates to much... and Cell blast the helpless Tien into oblivion, sending him to Kaioh for the second time in his life. Goku comes to late, Cell punch him and slightly hurt him, enough to feel he is not THAT strong. Goku retreat in panic, picking Piccolo without time to taunt Cell about a later fight. In turn this greatly frustrate Cell and angers him.

Whatever, back to the original story: Vegeta turned arrogant and stupid get out of the time chamber with Trunks, and blunder the same, the idiot, allowing Cell to go perfect form by absorbing C-18... and then Vegeta is beaten. Trunks "big muscle form" is too slow. C-16 is brain damaged.
Meanwhile Krillin crush on C-18 cost him his life when he crush the remote and the newly born Perfect Cell, angered and pissed-off, forget to restrain and kill him. Trunks come too late to give Krillin a senzu bean, and poor Krillin join Tien at Kaioh's planet.

Cell is now king of the universe. Except that he is frustrated by his brief fight with Goku, so he decides to push the Cell Game further than the original TL, by a year. Meanwhile he will travel in space because he felt Frieza brother's, Cooler, is coming - a good training partner for him to get stronger. Cell meet Cooler and tell him what happened to his brother and father, and together they will avenge that.
On Earth the surviving Z-fighters join at Bulma's for a crisis meeting. Lot of accrimony is flying.

Roshi and Chaozu are furious Tien died, and blast Yamcha for having doing nothing - no remote like Krillin, no help to Piccolo and Tien (watch team four stars for an explanation)

In turn, Bulma is furious Krillin died. All this piss off Vegeta and the Saiyen bad side returns and he threaten his new love interest. After Chaozu criticism something ticks (at least !) into Yamcha and he bravely stand up against Vegeta to protect his former girlfriend... only to be brushed aside by a single, powerful Vegeta kick that swats him like a fly into a building wall, hurting him badly. Bulma runs to Yamcha rescue and Vegeta flies away, furious.

Gohan and Goku go to the hyperbolic time chamber, leaving Piccolo alone. As the namek needs a training partner, he ask Bulma to repair C-16, the punk cyborg.

And that's where the first part end.

Meanwhile, at Kaioh's planet... Tien and Krillin ask for the obvious: teach us Kaioken. Kaioh, still furious at Goku experience on Namek, and all too aware of Tien suicidal tendencies when fighting, staunchly refuse, telling them human stamina is too weak for even X3. In order to distract the two humans he carries them to the tournament where he carried Goku in the anime, with Pikkon, olibu and others. With the other Kaiohs, in the afterlife. Bad luck for him, Tien and Krillin meet a Metamol there, and learn fusion dance long before the Buu saga. And that Metamol briefly tell them that "more efficient fusion exist, ask Kaioh about the Kaioshin, his bosses..."

Brief flashback: the metamols once stupidly all fused into an uncontrolable monster. The Kaioshins saved the day and allowed the metamols to keep a non permanent, 5-minute only fusion. They kept the potara fusion to themselves, although the metamols still knew.

Whatever, Krillin realizes that, fusion could allow them to better endure the Kaioken. And so they learn and train secretely and then stun the Kaiohs by fusing and beating Olibu, and then Pikkon. And then they insist again. "Teach us kaioken !" New refusal from Kaioh.
"Well, then we will ask your Kaioshin bosses."
"What ? no, no, I will ask them."
Except Kaioh telepatically warn the Kaioshins and together they set a trap. "Sure, we will teach you kaioken or train you to get stronger, if you get the Z-sword out of its rock."
Bad luck: Krien (the fused Tien / Krillin) manage to remove the sword (truth be told, the story was a joke, but whatever). Now the Kaioshins have to comply to their promise. They play the kashin game and the Z-sword breaks, freeing Old Kai. Which promptly shout at Kibito, Shin and Kaioh for their dishonesty, and proposes instead to awake Krien potential. With fusion, it should be enough to handle limited kaioken.

And so they do.

Meanwhile on Earth...

C-16 is repaired by Bulma and goes to train with Piccolo, including into the time chamber. Meanwhile Yamcha is recovering and in shame of his own weakness, particularly when he tries following Piccolo and C-16 training and is completely outclassed. Watching C-16 fight he sudendly has a lightbulb moment and flies back to Bulma, who is deep into C-17 and C-18 plans recovered by Krillin and Trunks before they blasted Gero lab.

"Turn me into a cyborg " that's what he asks Bulma. After many, many hesitations, Bulma comply. Yamcha is then seen training alone in a barren wasteland with his power level skyrocketing.

Meanwhile in space after slaughtering Salsa squadron Cell is using Cooler as a sparing partner, pushing him to unleash Frost demons varied shapes. The titanic clash is felt across the entire universe, and raise alarm bells including in the Kaioshin realm. Cell and Cooler finally speed toward Earth.

Which prompt all the z-fighter to meet again and bring back the dead ones. Some surprises await them.

And so the alternate Cell game begin, with Cooler going first. M. Satan, his pupils and the TV team are there, too, for the sake of humor.
The Z-fighters - Trunks and Vegeta, Gohan and Goku, Piccolo, C-16, come first. And then the "humans" land, too - Tien, Krillin, Yamcha. Piccolo sense something has changed with them.
Whatever, Cooler is overconfident and is promptly dispatched by Piccolo. Then Cell and Goku fight as per the original manga / anime. Except Cell is stronger (thanks to some zenkais, courtesy of Cooler) and more confident. Goku finally throws the towel and throws his son into the fight. Same as the original story up to the Cell juniors, C-16 death included.
And then the fight against the Cell juniors is more balanced. Yamcha, now a cyborg, holds his own. The Krien fusion followed by kaioken stun everybody. Much like Piccolo, Trunks and Vegeta, the humans can resist the juniors but neither hurt or kill them. Piccolo realize the z-fighters now have balanced power at roughly mid-SSJ1 level, and wonders about a new budokai between them - if they survive of course.
Cell finally get stomped by a pissed-off SSJ2 Gohan, although hurt after saving Vegeta from death. Thanks to their stronger power the z-fighters better distract Cell with Vegeta, allowing Gohan to obliterates him.

And then the cyborgs C-17 and C-18 are brought back at Kami palace, and Piccolo proposes his idea of a new budokai including them. Vegeta flatly refuses, Gohan accepts to restrain his SSJ power to SSJ1. As such the saiyens are less numerous and also closer from all the others.
Future Trunks agree to return after he save his future. The Budokai will thus include Trunks, C-18 (soon Krillin wife) C-17, Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, cyborg Yamcha, and Krien. Eventually Bulma manage to rebuild C-16 and to convince Vegeta to participate, so they are ten.
They decide to get teams - divided between Team Saiyen (4), Team Cyborg (4, Yamcha included !), and team Human / Namek (humanamek ? Krien + Kamiccolonail). Finally, instead of being a "pyramidal" budokai like the old one (final, se-mi-finals and the like) somebody suggest a battle royale (think DBS tournament of power). The three teams will fight each others until nobody is left.
It is the object of the sequel: DBZ - Budokai of power.

All too aware of their disadvantage in number and strength, Team Humanamek decides to go to Roshi and others to learn some old techniques that may gave them a decisive advantage (hint, mafuba and others). They use the pendulum room at Kami palace to travel through time and space, fighting old and terrifying adversaries to get stronger and learn new techniques. They travel to varied places and moments in the Dragon Ball universe, meeting old Frieza and his saiyen slaves, Bojack, and some others.
 
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Archibald

Well-known member
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This DBZ fanfic siliness has grown way beyond that thread. Anybody interested about a specific thread ? and where should I put it ?
 

Simon

Oblivious
It's a somewhat stereotypical aerospace alternate history but if the Miles M.52 wasn't cancelled in early 1946–to be replaced by scaled down remote controlled models that ended up costing more than the M.52, but that's another matter–and successfully flew in early- to mid-1947 you would see a completely different The Sound Barrier. On the one hand a film with test pilot Lieutenant Eric Brown becoming the first man to exceed the speed of sound is appealing, on the other you could well end up with a much more workmanlike film than The Sound Barrier of our timeline so swings and roundabouts.


Off the top of my head, I think the first Dalton Bond movie would have to have been closer to Licence To Kill than The Living Daylights and it would have had to have been a great deal more successful.
As I understand things Moore was initially unenthusiastic about coming back for a sixth Bond film with A View to a Kill. Assuming that Dalton was still chosen as the replacement you do have to wonder how his version would have turned out.
 

Time Enough

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I do wonder what a Late 80s version of Strange Days would be like (the original idea being concived by James Cameron in 1986).

The film we got is 90s GlobalisationPunk, Mid 90s Cyberpunk mixed with the L.A. Riots in terms of aesthetic whilst I could see a late 80s one being more Technoir.

Maybe it would be that filled with that Late 80s Industrial Pop/Goth Aesthetic which bands like Depeche Mode made popular, or maybe something more House/Hip Hop inspired. Depends on who Cameron goes with as director.
 

Coiler

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Sam Bowie makes into NBA Jam as one of the Nets players (OTL they were Derrick Coleman and Drazen Petrovic).

Michael Jordan famously didn't make it in because of licensing issues, so it would be an irony to have the man drafted ahead of him be there in the most successful basketball game of all time.
 

RyanF

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Sam Bowie makes into NBA Jam as one of the Nets players (OTL they were Derrick Coleman and Drazen Petrovic).

Michael Jordan famously didn't make it in because of licensing issues, so it would be an irony to have the man drafted ahead of him be there in the most successful basketball game of all time.
And yet didn't Bill and Hillary Clinton both make it in?
 

RyanF

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A few people have mentioned in the comments on my recent Bond articles as to the possibility of a Shuffling the Bonds, the concept has legs even in just rearranging the OTL actors but there's a lot more meat on the bone when you have a mix of OTL and ATL actors.

List of actors to have played the James Bond character in EON films:

Roger Moore (1962-1970) [1]
Burt Reynolds (1970-1972) [2]
Michael Billington (1979-1985) [3]
Pierce Brosnan (1987-1998) [4]
Colin Salmon (2001-2007) [5]
Henry Cavill (2012-present) [6]

[1] The decision of producers Cubby Broccoli and Harry Saltzman to cast a relative unknown in the lead role of what they hoped to be a successful series of films was one that could have easily backfired on them. They would consider various name stars including Cary Grant, James Mason, Patrick McGoohan, Richard Burton, and David Niven but none would commit for three films or for what the producers were willing to pay. They turned their attention to lesser known actors and many were considered, including future Spaghetti Western and giallo stalwart Sean Connery, before they eventually settled on Roger Moore, who was more known in the United States for appearing in TV Westerns than he was in the United Kingdom. Director Terence Young would inject much humour into Dr. No, which was chosen to be adapted after the initial choice, Thunderball, became embroiled in a legal tussle between character creator Ian Fleming and writer Kevin McClory. This humour would play no small part in making the film the runaway success it was and catapulting Moore to super-stardom. He would play opposite Christopher Lee as the title character and Ursula Andress as love interest Honey Rider, and the end credits promised James Bond would return in From Russia with Love.

From Russia with Love (1963) had been chosen as the second film after President John F. Kennedy had selected it as one of his ten favourite books of all time, and the President would later grace the US premier of the film in New York in April 1964. Moore returned along with Bernard Lee as his superior M, Lois Maxwell as flirtatious secretary Miss Moneypenny, Peter Burton as equipment manager Boothroyd, and Eunice Gayson as Bond's semi-regular girlfriend Sylvia Trench. Newcomers included Sylvia Koscina as Tatatiana Romanova, Katina Paxinou as Rosa Klebb, Joseph Wiseman as Kronsteen, Joe Robinson as Red Grant, and Francis de Wolff as Kerim Bey. de Wolff sepped into the large part of Bey after initial choice Pedro Armendariz had to drop out due to failing health that would see him take his own life. Once again the film was a success, and the end credits promised James Bond would return again in Goldfinger.

Goldfinger (1964) would go on to be the blueprint for many subsequent Bond films, and though the first two were successful this was the first to be a genuine blockbuster even to the extent of drawing cinema-goers away from the much more star-studded adaptation of Casino Royale starring Cary Grant and directed by Howard Hawks. Despite it's large budget (more than Dr. No and From Russia with Love combined), the producers were reticent to acquiesce to any greater share or salary when requested. Such requests saw Terence Young replaced as director by Guy Hamilton, and saw Bond's CIA contact recast from Jack Lord to Austin Willis. The producers also refused to pay Orson Welles what he demanded to appear as the villainous title character, so the role instead went to German actor Gert Fröbe. Honor Blackman would depart the hit television series The Avengers to appear as leading lady Pussy Galore, and took great delight in mentioning the characters name as often as she could in interviews. For many fans Goldfinger would be the definitive Bond film, and for that reason for many of them Roger Moore remains the definitive Bond able to play the characters charming and vicious sides in equal measure.

Ian Fleming did not live to see the success Goldfinger would become, though before he died the long-running court case with Kevin McClory over Thunderball would be settled out of court. McClory would retain the screen rights over the novel's story, plot, and characters. The producers disliked the idea of another competing film so tried to coax McClory into adapting Thunderball with EON. The relationship was a dismal one and the project quickly fell through, with Broccoli and Saltzman eventually deciding they could take the risk of McClory's competition after so decisively beating Casino Royale at the box office. Instead the next film they would adapt was On Her Majesty's Secret Service, after taking the script through several drafts to remove all references to terrorist organisation SPECTRE and its leader Ernst Stavro Blofeld, leaving those plot strands from the first two films forever hanging.

On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1966) would be the first time the series would radically depart from the plot of Fleming's novel, Bond would still fall in love and marry Countess Tracy di Vincenzo, played by Yvonne Monlaur, but gone was the hunt for Ernst Stavro Blofeld instead a new villain, the enigmatic Franz Oberhauser, played by Jack Palance, is behind the plot to brainwash a group of young women into unleashing biological agents into the global food supply. The film was seen by some as a step backward from Goldfinger, with its single location in the Swiss Alps as opposed to the globetrotting of the prior film. It also represented an injection of a lot more camp into the series, turning the humour of Young and the farce of Hamilton into the defining tone of the film under director Peter Hunt. The producers had tried to coax both Hamilton and Young into returning to directorial duties but the former found himself burned out from Goldfinger and the latter elected instead to adapt Thunderball for Kevin McClory.

It's a falsehood that Thunderball outperformed On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but it was certainly a far closer run thing than Goldfinger vs. Casino Royale two years prior. The EON film still won handily, but critical reception was far more divisive. Discussion mostly centres around the epic scope of Thunderball compared with the much more intimate EON film, as well as the influence of Young making Thunderball much more akin to the earlier EON films, and on the merits of Roger Moore vs. John Richardson.

The Man With the Golden Gun (1968) was chosen to be adapted after Broccoli decided to blame, of all things, the presence of snow in On Her Majesty's Secret Service for its failure to match the success of Goldinger. The film would see production return to Jamaica, and was blatant in it's attempt to recapture the feel of Dr. No. They even went so far as to seek out Ursula Andress for a cameo though she demanded too much money. Elements of the short sotry "For Your Eyes Only" were included in the screenplay that saw Bond battle against swarthy hitman Francisco Scaramanga, played by Sean Connery, here imaigined as a sort of 'anti-Bond', and Count von Hammerstein, the ex-Gestapo leader of the Cuban secret police, played by Donald Pleasance.

Many considered the film an improvement over the previous effort with its darker themes and return to the Caribbean, but it still did not perform nearly as well as the first three films. It outperformed On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but only barely and without the presence of a competing film. Changing tastes also might have caused the film to perform below expectations, 1968 was a time of political turmoil and Bond seemed a relic of a more optimistic time. The Beatles had split up, Batman was long-gone, and the sheen had long worn off the Kennedy Administration after a calamitous second term. After agreeing his last two films on an individual basis, Roger Moore finally decided that at the age of forty-one he had grown a bit long in the tooth to be playing James Bond and told Broccoli and Saltzman he would not be returning to the role. He would go on to work with the likes of Alfred Hitchock and Stanley Kubrick, and to many people remains the epitome of James Bond on the big screen.

[2] Deciding that the key to continued success was penetration of the American market, the producers made the decision that the next actor to fill the role of James Bond would be an American. After actors such as Adam West, Clint Eastwood, and John Gaving were considered to varying degrees eventually Burt Reynolds was chosen to replace Roger Moore in the lead role. To further this new American feel to the series the next novel chosen to be adapted would be Diamonds Are Forever, with Richard Maibum's initial draft being suitably Americanised by Tom Mankiewicz and directed by Canadian Sidney J. Furie who had previously worked with Saltzman on the adaptation of Len Deighton's The IPCRESS File. Reynolds as CIA agent James Bond would lock horns with the Sprang brothers, mobsters played by Martin Landau and Leonard Nimoy, whilst his love interest Tiffany Case would be played by Racquel Welch. The climactic boat chase across Lake Mead would draw heaps of praise, and the film would be the most successful since Goldfinger although would come nowhere near to matching the success of that film.

Live and Let Die (1972) would continue the American feel for the series, only this time would take strong influence from a popular strand in American cinema - blaxploitation. Mankiewicz and Furie would return to writing and directing duties. Reynolds would return to the role, this time facing off against Julius Harris as the drug lord Mr. Big and romance Diana Ross as Big's fortune teller Solitaire. Casting Solitaire as a black woman was a departure from Fleming's novel, and made it the first time the series portrayed an interracial relationship on screen. The film would be criticised for being too close to Diamonds Are Forever to the point of being a paint-by-numbers affair, and would be the lowest grossing film of the series thus far. Reynolds also tired of the restrictions placed on him by the producers including what roles he could accept and how he should look, so asked to be released from his contract. With Live and Let Die being seen as a failure the producers agreed, and Reynolds first action was to appear in a film scripted by stuntman friend Hal Needham and also grow a huge moustache which he was forbidden from doing by Broccoli. Saltzman suggested to Broccoli that the series should take a rest. Broccoli eventually relented, and though the end credits of Live and Let Die promised James Bond would return there were no plans yet in place to begin production.

[3] Were it up to Broccoli, production would have begun on the next Bond film as soon as he had an actor secured. Unfortunately, a series of commercial failures saw Salztman forced to sell his 50% ownership of the series to Universal Studios. Disagreements between Broccoli and the studio on the best way to take the franchise saw the next Bond film linger in development for a couple of years. Inspiration for how to get the series back off the ground would come form the unlikeliest of places. Science fiction films were big business by the late 1970s, kick-started by the success of 1976's Flash Gordon, directed by George Lucas. A slew of other successes would follow in its wake including Steven Spielberg's Buck Rogers, Ridley Scott's Dune, John Carpenter's Alien, Philip Kaufman's Galactica, Robert Wise's big-screen adaptation of Star Trek, and Brian De Palma's Planet of the Apes.

Moonraker (1979) would be the first Bond film to exceed the success of Goldfinger. Fleming's novel was largely abandoned except for characters and instead a new plot was devised as the script went through various writers. Broccoli for his part brought back series regular Richard Maibum, but the young director the studio insisted on sent it through a series of rewrites by many including science fiction author Leigh Brackett, who had scripted Hawks' Casino Royale in the 1960s. Broccoli did not initially see eye to eye with Steven Spielberg until the time came to chose who would play 007. The studio wanted an American, Broccoli wanted a British actor, Burt Reynolds seemingly souring him to the idea of a US actor in the lead. To the surprise of the studio, Spielberg took Broccoli's side. After a long casting call Michael Billington would be chosen as the third actor to play the role in an EON film ahead of Timothy Dalton and Michael Jayston. The action was transplanted from the Home Counties to Florida, where in a scene reminiscent of Goldfinger Bond is contacted by CIA Agent Felix Leiter (Harrison Ford) to investigate why aerospace magnate Hugo Drax (James Mason) is cheating at cards. Bond links up with another CIA agent undercover inside Drax's organisation, Gala Brand, played by Jaclyn Smith, who like Honor Blackman was poached from a successful television programme - Charlie's Angels. The climax would see Bond and Brand launched into space in an attempt to bring down Drax's orbital laser with which he attempts to hold the world to ransom, before Drax himself is dispatched when his shuttle depressurises. The film would be produced at Universal's new studios in Orlando, becoming one of the key features filmed at the new combination theme park / studio.

For Your Eyes Only (1981) was chosen as the title of the next film whilst Moonraker was still in production. The idea was to do a very grounded film following on from the space-going Moonraker. Billington returned as Bond, and Smith returned for a cameo as Gala Brand. The Mediterranean setting saw much of the interior work done in the United Kingdom, away from the use of Universal Studios Orlando, which Broccoli detested feeling it to be a backwater. The duelling crime lords of the film, Kristatos and Colombo, would be played by Terence Stamp and Ricardo Montalbán, respectively. Spielberg was interested in returning, but instead Broccoli drafted in English television director John Irvin, after seeing his adaptation of John le Carré's Tinker Tailor Solider Spy believing he would bring the right grounding for the film. Irvin became the first Englishman to direct a Bond film since the 1960s. Though still successful For Your Eyes Only would not match the success of Moonraker, but that was a very high bar to clear so there was no doubt that once again James Bond would return.

The Property of a Lady (1983) would combine elements of two Fleming short stories, "Octopussy" and "The Property of a Lady". The film would take Bond from Sotheby's in London to the Austrian Alps to Berlin in pursuit of KGB agent Maria Freudenstein (Cassandra Harris) and jewel smuggler Dexter Smythe (Richard Burton). The Property of a Lady would prove to be Burton's last performance and he would die in 1984. Broccoli was worried about the first sight of snow in a Bond film since On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but a returning Irvin was able to craft another taut thriller this one reminiscent of From Russia with Love. It would attract great reviews and would perform slightly better than For Your Eyes Only, as well as marking the first time Cubby Broccoli would meet Pierce Brosnan. However, with Kevin McClory bringing another adaptation of Thunderball to light in the wake of the renewed success of the EON films, Broccoli wanted to go big to settle a twenty-year old score.

From a View to a Kill (1985) saw the return after over twenty years of Guy Hamilton to the directors chair of a Bond film. He had joined the ranks of blockbuster directors after making Superman and Superman II. Billington was reluctant to return after three successfully received films and not wanting a poorly performing one under his belt, he too was worried about the possibility of the new Thunderball splitting ticket sales. Broccoli was able to lure him back however, not wishing to be breaking in a new Bond when facing competition for the first time in twenty years. Fleming's short story of the same name would be adapted in full during the pre-credits updated to the 1980s and seeing a lengthy motorcycle chase across rural Germany. The rest of the film would be an original script from Michael G. Wilson and Richard Maibaum, taking place in California where Bond investigates disappearing nuclear submarines. Harrison Ford and Jaclyn Smith would both return to the series, with James Brolin as billionaire playboy and KGB agent Max Whitaker. Some criticism was levelled at the film bringing nothing new to the series, but this was nothing compared with the rejection of the trouble-ridden production of Thunderball. An unhappy star in the shape of Sam Neill and an unhappy director in the shape of Andrew V. McLaglen would bury the film, citing McClory's controlling nature.

[4] The dragon of Kevin McClory finally slayed, and Michael Billington bowing out on a high, the search was on for the next Bond. Timothy Dalton would again be strongly considered but the role would go this time to Pierce Brosnan, who was known to the producers from his wife Cassandra Harris appearing in The Property of a Lady. As to what the title of the next film would be, they were fast running out of novels and short stories, but floundering studio Columbia Pictures was keen to offload as many properties as they could to get a quick cash injection. Broccoli and Universal split the cost to buy the rights to Fleming's first novel.

Casino Royale (1987) was a departure from prior Bond films in a number of respects. It was the first that reset the Bond series with a new actor to look at Bond first becoming a 00-agent and gaining his licence to kill, themes taken from the novel which chronicles his first assignment. The film, directed by Martin Campbell, another import from British television, follows the plot of the novel closely. Brosnan would be joined by Anthony Hopkins as Le Chiffre, Miranda Richardson as Vesper Lynde, Joe Don Baker as Felix Leiter, Yves Montand as René Mathis, and Kenneth Griffith as M. The new direction of the series was greeted with positive reviews, as was the new Bond.

You Only Live Twice (1989) would take 007 outside of Europe and the Americas for the first time, not counting a brief sojourn across the Bosporus in From Russia With Love. Production would be concentrated in Japan and Brosnan would return along with Griffith. In the novel the villain was Ernst Stavro Blofeld, who obviously could not be used, instead the alias of Shatterhand was used for the villain who is the leader of an unidentified terrorist group looking to create instability in Asia. Shatterhand was played by Ken Takakura, changing the villain character from European to Japanese. Most of the other roles would be similarly filled by Japanese actors, including as Juzo Itami Tiger Tanaka and Fukumi Kuroda as Kissy Susuki. Arguably the most unique entry in the series up to that point given its atypical setting, people turned out in droves for the film and it actually out-performed Casino Royale.

The Living Daylights (1991) was the last of Brosnan's initial contract of three films, like From a View to a Kill it adapted the original short story in full as part of the pre-credits before spiralling off into a classic Cold War thriller seeing the KGB look to reassert itself in former Warsaw Pact nations. There was just one issue, the Cold War ended a few months before the film came out with the Soviet Union's final transition to democracy. Along with snow, the end of four decades of nuclear standoff would prove to be box office poison for the Bond franchise. Reviewers were kind, praising the film on its own merits but bemoaning the dated aspects of the plot.

Quantum of Solace (1994) would prove to be the last film Cubby Broccoli would oversee, already grooming stepson Michael G. Wilson and daughter Barbara Broccoli to take over from him. It would also prove to be one of his more lacklustre efforts, ending his run of producing fifteen Bond films with a whimper rather than a bang. Brosnan would return, more out of loyalty to Cubby than any strong desire to do another film. Something of Brosnan's boredom definitely came through in his performance as 007 investigated stolen nuclear bomb plans being sold to post-Soviet terrorists. It was certainly a modern take on the series, but one that seemed more paint-by-numbers than the previous Cold War thriller. Cubby Broccoli would pass away in 1996 at the age of 87, with production on the next Bond film already underway.

Colonel Sun (1998) was the first film to be adapted from a Bond novel by someone other than Ian Fleming, being adapted from Kingsley Amis' 1968 novel of the same name published under the pseudonym Robert Markham. Obtaining the rights to the novel were one of the last actions Broccoli completed in his capacity as producer, seeing the use of a People's Liberation Army villain as a way of updating for the Cold War. Instead of sabotaging efforts at East-West détente the Colonel, played by Chow Yun-Fat, plans to sabotage attempts at a smooth handover of Hong Kong by the British to the Chinese. Though Broccoli and Brosnan had both considered Quantum of Solace to be Brosnan's last as Bond Wilson and Broccoli were relucant to take a chance on a new actor, this saw the film delayed from its original 1997 release to 1998, by which point Hong Kong had reverted to Chinese control without incident. Chinese director John Woo was drafted in for directorial duties, but his stylised direction proved divisive for fans. Objectively many consider Colonel Sun a great action film, particular praise directed towards Michelle Yeoh as Bond's partner (distinctly not a love interest) and Jet Li as Sun's henchman, but many question whether it was a fit for the Bond franchise.

[5]Brosnan said his fifth film was unequivocally his last, and Broccoli and Wilson began searching for the next actor to fill the boots of 007. This was not just a recasting though, this would be the Bond that would define their initial stewardship of the series. It was actually Pierce Brosnan that would suggest the man that would become his successor, he had acted opposite him in, of all things, an episode of Tales from the Crypt, but suggested his performance as a troubled detective in Cracker as proof of his talent. In a crowded field of actors including Daniel Craig and Clive Owen, Colin Salmon would become the fifth actor to play James Bond in an EON production. He would also become the first black actor to take the role.

The Spy Who Loved Me (2001) would only take the title of the Ian Fleming novel from which it was adapted, per Fleming's initial agreement with Cubby Broccoli four decades prior. The plot would see Bond follow a drug trail tied to a terrorist organisation from London to Montreal, the action would not venture outside either city making it the most urban set Bond film. The gritty direction of the series was another thing that divided fans in the same way Colonel Sun did. Though Salmon would earn praise for his performance along with Rachel Weisz as his love interest, an RMCP agent based in Montreal. The lack of a strong central villain instead of a number of bland terrorists was seen as a major weak point. The film was successful enough at the box office but this was seen as more due to the excitement around a new Bond than any sign of the quality of the film.

The Hildebrand Rarity (2004) would take things in the opposite direction, gone were the dark cityscapes and instead Bond would spent three quarters of the film on a luxury yacht in the Indian Ocean. Wilson and Broccoli would also address the criticisms of a strong central villain by having Milton Krest, played by Chris Cooper, front and centre for the bulk of the film as someone suspected of smuggling weapons Bond is investigating. Soon it becomes clear that Krest is involved in more than just fishing and traps Bond on his yacht where he is hunted by his henchmen. Bond bests the villain with the help of his abused wife, Monica Bellucci, who is the one to kill Krest. The Hildebrand Rarity would draw some questions on its use of violence, particularly around Krest abusing his wife, but would be seen on the whole as an improvement on The Spy Who Loved Me. This would be reflected at the box office.

The World Is Not Enough (2007) would be the first Bond film to not take its title from a novel or short story, instead being taken from a line in both the novel and film On Her Majesty's Secret Service. After two straight thrillers there was a desire to take the next Bond film in an epic direction. Action would be split between London, Zurich, and California as Bond battles technology magnate Philip Seymour Hoffman. The tongue-in-cheek direction was felt to be too light-hearted for what had been built in the Salmon films so far. Though it was a financial success the film came under strong criticism, split between audiences who liked it and critics who did not.

Plans were already underway for another Bond film, and the search for another actor since Colin Salmon considered three to be plenty, but changing production methods in Hollywood would change the Bond franchise forever more.

[6]In early 2007 Kevin McClory died at the age of 82, Broccoli and Wilson were eager to by the rights to Thunderball, the missing puzzle piece for forty-five years, form his estate. They were pipped to the post however, by Universal Studios. This was a non-issue, really, since Universal had a working relationship with EON since the 1970s. What Broccoli and Wilson could not foresee was how the changing way films were being made in the new century made Universal offer to buy them out of the majority of their holdings and accept consultant positions, essentially handing over production of the franchise to the studio. The studio had hit upon success with their Buck Rogers franchise and the shared universe based on their old horror movies modelled on the Warner Bros/Action Comics style, and they wanted to bring Bond likewise in-house. By 2010, Broccoli and Wilson would relent, received massive pay-offs and were kicked upstairs.

Casino Royale (2012) would be the first film produced under the new structure, with EON as a full subsidiary of Universal. It represented a radical departure for the series by adapting a novel already adapted once in the series, as well as being the first to be set period with the publication of the novel. Henry Cavill would emerge as the choice of both the studio and director Christopher Nolan. SMERSH would be replaced as the overarching villainous organisation by SPECTRE, and the end credits promised Bond would return in Live and Let Die. The film would be a critical and commercial success, doing as well as The World Is Not Enough and being significantly better reviewed by critics.

Live and Let Die (2014) was the second of Cavill's unprecedented ten-film contract. It would prove to be less successful than Casino Royale but would receive praise for successfully portraying the racism inherent in that era, though criticism still for Bond not reacting to Leiter's racism with more objection. Both Live and Let Die and it's successor, Moonraker (2016), would be directed by Matthew Vaughn. Moonraker would see another instance of declining returns, and many critics and fans were beginning to question whether a film every two years was sustainable in such an era, but they were still massively successful.

Cary Joji Fukunaga would be chosen as the director of the next two entries, Diamonds Are Forever (2018) and From Russia, With Love (2020). Diamonds Are Forever would repeat the similar pattern of prior entries in the 2010s and see a slight decrease in revenue but still massively successful - particularly in the now important Russian and Chinese markets. From Russia, With Love is expected to continue the trend though likely to break box office records in the Soviet Union, where the script has been tailored to pass the Russian censors.

Rumours have emerged that Universal are perfectly happy with the performance of the series, because they know that the 2020s will see the release of Dr. No, Goldfinger, and Thunderball - the films everyone has been waiting for since 2012.
 
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