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PODs of the Thirty Years War XXVI

Alex Richards

She needs an artificial Mountain, not AV
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Lovely images as usual.

I should note that Arundel's negotiations were such a damp squih he spent most of the trip touring the bits of the Rhineland that weren't in ruins.
 

Redolegna

Champagne Socialist
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Lovely images as usual.

I should note that Arundel's negotiations were such a damp squih he spent most of the trip touring the bits of the Rhineland that weren't in ruins.
So two towns and one hamlet, then?

You talk of some British regiments at the beginning, were they mostly Scottish, or were the English also beginning to get some experience which would be relevant a half-dozen years later?
 

Alex Richards

She needs an artificial Mountain, not AV
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So two towns and one hamlet, then?

You talk of some British regiments at the beginning, were they mostly Scottish, or were the English also beginning to get some experience which would be relevant a half-dozen years later?
The vast, vast majority of the volunteers who went to the continent were Scottish- about 80% for those who joined the Swedish army. The French tended to get a fair number of Irish as well, though Spain was the preferred destination for them.

English involvement was much more formalised.

Of course, the possibility can't be discounted that what have been historically registered as 'Scottish' regiments actually included a significant-but-not-major-enough-to-be-noted-at-the-time number of people from northern England.
 

Redolegna

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Of course, the possibility can't be discounted that what have been historically registered as 'Scottish' regiments actually included a significant-but-not-major-enough-to-be-noted-at-the-time number of people from northern England.
And Borderers could be hazy on who they were serving beyond themselves, as I recall.
 

David Flin

An evil Socialist, apparently.
And Borderers could be hazy on who they were serving beyond themselves, as I recall.
Absolutely. I'm vaguely familiar with Borderer tradition through marriage (twice, in fact), that the first loyalty of a Borderer was to the family, and any other loyalty was measured in coins.

They regarded themselves as neither English nor Scottish (or Welsh), but Borderers. Oh, they'd claim to be English when it was convenient to be English, or Scottish when it was convenient to be Scottish. During one battle (and I forget which) the English commander made sure his troops wore a cloth stitched to their tunic to show which side they were on. He complained that the Borderers used stitching that was weak and the cloth could be blown away or removed in an instant. Big surprise there.

The Scottish Borderer had far more in common with the English Borderer than with other Scots (and ditto on the other side of the coin). You rarely encounter references to hatred of other riding families, whichever side of the border they came from, but there are frequent references to hatred of the English/Scots from outside the Borders.
 

Death's Companion

General Ugg Apologist.
Absolutely. I'm vaguely familiar with Borderer tradition through marriage (twice, in fact), that the first loyalty of a Borderer was to the family, and any other loyalty was measured in coins.

They regarded themselves as neither English nor Scottish (or Welsh), but Borderers. Oh, they'd claim to be English when it was convenient to be English, or Scottish when it was convenient to be Scottish. During one battle (and I forget which) the English commander made sure his troops wore a cloth stitched to their tunic to show which side they were on. He complained that the Borderers used stitching that was weak and the cloth could be blown away or removed in an instant. Big surprise there.

The Scottish Borderer had far more in common with the English Borderer than with other Scots (and ditto on the other side of the coin). You rarely encounter references to hatred of other riding families, whichever side of the border they came from, but there are frequent references to hatred of the English/Scots from outside the Borders.
Weren't there accounts of many battles where they kind of just stood around facing each other letting the stupid highlanders/english slaughter each other and then when the unpleasantness was done just looted the corpses together and went home?
 

David Flin

An evil Socialist, apparently.
Weren't there accounts of many battles where they kind of just stood around facing each other letting the stupid highlanders/english slaughter each other and then when the unpleasantness was done just looted the corpses together and went home?
There's the story (as relayed to me) of the Battle of Flodden (1513), in which one wing of the Scottish Army was composed of Scottish borderers. The borderers fought, and pushed back the English wing facing them. Meanwhile, the rest of the Scottish army was hard-pressed, and James IV called for the borderers to come to their aid and help win the battle.

Lord Home, commanding (if that's the right word) the Borderers, is said to have responded: "We have done our part. Let others do their part." The borderers then proceeded to loot the baggage trains of both armies, and returned home with the plunder.

Meanwhile, the English won the battle, killed James IV, and emerged triumphant.

Then there's the story of a relative (by marriage) who was a Scottish borderer who fought for the Hanoverians at Culloden. Fought, apparently, is a strong term to use. Depending on source, looting the corpses, occasionally turning the wounded into corpses to make looting easier.
 

Redolegna

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Then there's the story of a relative (by marriage) who was a Scottish borderer who fought for the Hanoverians at Culloden. Fought, apparently, is a strong term to use. Depending on source, looting the corpses, occasionally turning the wounded into corpses to make looting easier.
Did he then open an inn highlighting his heroics and agree to raise the child of a single mother, only to exact enormous sums of money from her?
 
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