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No Congo Free State

Before Berlin, Leopold had Stanley as his agent, developing the trading stations and signing treaties.

Before this, Stanley had worked for the British, and only accepted Leopold's commission once London turned him down.

So more interest from London in Stanley's proposals would be a POD
 
One of the more interesting ideas I saw at the other place would be if Spain decided to make a move - mainly because of a misreading of the OP for that thread, when people assumed it was the Congo Free State when "Spanish Congo" was mentioned when in fact it was much further north, in the Nigeria/Cameroon area (more specifically, according to the Treaty of El Pardo, between the Niger and Ogoue Rivers - hence also including modern-day Equatorial Guinea and much of Gabon). Assuming an 18th/early 19th century POD, if Spain decided to make a move in the area beyond OTL's history of Spanish/Equatorial Guinea, it could be interesting to see the borders extend south (towards Congo-Brazzaville) and east into the modern Free State. Colonization here would take a different tone than in America and the Philippines, and is probably more pragmatic considering Spain's OTL political history in the meantime - providing an opportunity for some who want to get away from the turmoil, not to mention a substitute for the lost American colonies as they became independent. It wouldn't be unicorns and roses (colonization in Africa, let alone the rest of the Global South, was generally very horrendous for the colonized, and IOTL Spanish Guinea was no different on that score - even if the Civil War barely touched the colony), but Spain would definitely be an improvement over being Leopold II's personal property in the OTL Congo Free State area.
 
One of the more interesting ideas I saw at the other place would be if Spain decided to make a move - mainly because of a misreading of the OP for that thread, when people assumed it was the Congo Free State when "Spanish Congo" was mentioned when in fact it was much further north, in the Nigeria/Cameroon area (more specifically, according to the Treaty of El Pardo, between the Niger and Ogoue Rivers - hence also including modern-day Equatorial Guinea and much of Gabon). Assuming an 18th/early 19th century POD, if Spain decided to make a move in the area beyond OTL's history of Spanish/Equatorial Guinea, it could be interesting to see the borders extend south (towards Congo-Brazzaville) and east into the modern Free State. Colonization here would take a different tone than in America and the Philippines, and is probably more pragmatic considering Spain's OTL political history in the meantime - providing an opportunity for some who want to get away from the turmoil, not to mention a substitute for the lost American colonies as they became independent. It wouldn't be unicorns and roses (colonization in Africa, let alone the rest of the Global South, was generally very horrendous for the colonized, and IOTL Spanish Guinea was no different on that score - even if the Civil War barely touched the colony), but Spain would definitely be an improvement over being Leopold II's personal property in the OTL Congo Free State area.

Labour conditions in the Spanish Guinea were openly described as slavery, to the point the the UK and France banned labour being exported there and when Liberia exported labour there, they were investigated by the League of Nations for slave trading (the fact that Spain wans't investigated is pretty typical).

The interesting thing about Spanish Guinea, in this context, is the extent that the land owners were often black. A lot of the plantation owners using slave labour were mixed race and a bunch were actually emigrants from the British Empire and in particular Sierra Leone, looking to take advantage of a system with much more room for financial rewards for black land owners.

Given the most distinctive quality of the belgian congo was the complete lack of natives elites, that would be a huge change. You'd see some what of indirect rule/co-opted elite with any other colonial empire but spain is likely to take it further than even any other.
 
But there were at the start of colonialism, Stanley was signing treaties with various local and regional leaders along the river

Right, but they weren't maintained once the Free State was in full operation. The local leaders who were kept in the system were then replaced once the Belgians could afford to. Most famously of course Tippu Tip and various other Zanzibarian arabs were given govenrnships in 1887 and then wiped out in 1894. But the same also happened to the Sudanese affiliated traders in the North, Sultan Djabar and the like.

There's exceptions to this, the Kings of Kuba survived Belgian rule, but much less of it then in say French or British West Africa or even Belgian Rwanda and Burundi. And more importantly much less recruitment of natives into the colonial service then you saw in those places, because of the disproportionately large population of white colonial workers (100,000 strong).

This mass of white administrators, combined with a segregationist effect that meant the natives were denied further education and to purchase property, meant the middle class that did form in other colonies, didn't really form in the Belgian Congo (the exception being in the clergy). You certainly didn't get the black politicians and newspaper owners you found elsewhere and even most clothes and food shop owners in Kinshasa during colonial rule were portuguese.
 
Labour conditions in the Spanish Guinea were openly described as slavery, to the point the the UK and France banned labour being exported there and when Liberia exported labour there, they were investigated by the League of Nations for slave trading (the fact that Spain wans't investigated is pretty typical).

And that would have to be something that would probably need to be addressed, especially if Spain to act on its African land claims much sooner than OTL as an eventual replacement of America (even if not intentional at the time).

The interesting thing about Spanish Guinea, in this context, is the extent that the land owners were often black. A lot of the plantation owners using slave labour were mixed race and a bunch were actually emigrants from the British Empire and in particular Sierra Leone, looking to take advantage of a system with much more room for financial rewards for black land owners.

Given the most distinctive quality of the belgian congo was the complete lack of natives elites, that would be a huge change. You'd see some what of indirect rule/co-opted elite with any other colonial empire but spain is likely to take it further than even any other.

Indirect rule as a feature of Spanish colonialism there would definitely be used, considering Spain's turbulent history during this period, but I agree that having native elites as an intermediary would be a major change. Having more educational opportunities for Africans here, through a Spanish-speaking medium, would also consequently be another butterfly, at least for primary and secondary education. Where there would be something that would be left for a TL writer going down this route to decide would be if there was any emigration from Spain itself, particularly of the lower classes. IOTL, a lot of the European community in French North Africa were Andalusians looking for better opportunities than could be found in southern Spain, as was continued emigration to the Americas after independence; if some of those flows could be diverted south, that would also be another change (especially if Madrid views it as a possible safety valve to release some of the tensions).
 
Right, but they weren't maintained once the Free State was in full operation. The local leaders who were kept in the system were then replaced once the Belgians could afford to. Most famously of course Tippu Tip and various other Zanzibarian arabs were given govenrnships in 1887 and then wiped out in 1894. But the same also happened to the Sudanese affiliated traders in the North, Sultan Djabar and the like.

There's exceptions to this, the Kings of Kuba survived Belgian rule, but much less of it then in say French or British West Africa or even Belgian Rwanda and Burundi. And more importantly much less recruitment of natives into the colonial service then you saw in those places, because of the disproportionately large population of white colonial workers (100,000 strong).

This mass of white administrators, combined with a segregationist effect that meant the natives were denied further education and to purchase property, meant the middle class that did form in other colonies, didn't really form in the Belgian Congo (the exception being in the clergy). You certainly didn't get the black politicians and newspaper owners you found elsewhere and even most clothes and food shop owners in Kinshasa during colonial rule were portuguese.

Absolutely yes

But with another colonial power or powers that could well be different?
 
It's hard to see how any successful mutiny doesn't end in another European power (or several) stepping in, but the impact of an African army booting a white government out of a colony would be incredible, even if it was short-lived.

Especially because there'd be something particularly nightmarish about this happening because of a revolt of local troops. There'd be shades of the rebelling sepoys.

And if, somehow, the Congo remains in the hands of the troops- perhaps every time there's a conference scheduled to discuss an intervention you get Fashoda or a Morocco Crisis or whatever that distracts the powers- then you could have a lot of fun with an uneasy junta ruling vast parts of Africa in the leadup to the Great War.

It would all fall apart of course, and likely fall apart very bloodily. But it would be interesting- and a morbid thought arises. Would Leopold's reputation be as bad if his state disintegrated before the peak of the campaign against him?
 
It's hard to see how any successful mutiny doesn't end in another European power (or several) stepping in, but the impact of an African army booting a white government out of a colony would be incredible, even if it was short-lived.

Obvious parallel is the Fall of Khartoum in terms of it not being officially a European colony but still being ran by white Christians. Or the Boers worst paranoid fears and the Zulus taking Pretoria.
 
It's hard to see how any successful mutiny doesn't end in another European power (or several) stepping in, but the impact of an African army booting a white government out of a colony would be incredible, even if it was short-lived.

Especially because there'd be something particularly nightmarish about this happening because of a revolt of local troops. There'd be shades of the rebelling sepoys.

More than that - for some, both in the Francophonie and even in the Western Hemisphere (considering Leopold II's reach for his propaganda efforts), it would be seen as another Haïti-like situation, with all the implications that entails. The remaining European colonial powers would see it as an example of something that should be avoided where possible. Meaning the decolonization process, when it happens, will be a lot more violent than OTL since the Africans would be oppressed a lot more. Meanwhile, if the now former Belgian Congo could be held together, that would even more remarkable - even more so if it could be at the same level as Liberia, but much better.
 
Even more so if it could be at the same level as Liberia.

A country whose foreign and domestic policy was run by an American corporation who offered protection from European colonists to a a small unrepresentative elite, at the cost of slave labour provided by the average joe?

Well, you did say it would be another Haiti-like situation.
 
A country whose foreign and domestic policy was run by an American corporation who offered protection from European colonists to a a small unrepresentative elite, at the cost of slave labour provided by the average joe?

Well, you did say it would be another Haiti-like situation.
Right; I meant an independent republic, full stop (although Liberia's was more peaceful than Haiti's, and for a while was, except for Ethiopia, the only independent state not colonized by Europeans; having an independent Congo in the 1890s/early 1900s would be interesting as yet another independent African state). For white people in the Western Hemisphere, Haiti for them was a symbol of the fear of a slave revolt and trying to crush the potential for that among their Black communities; likewise, the Congo for European colonies in Africa.
 
It would take a far more confident (and competent) writer than I, but W.E.B DuBois and Booker T Washington awkwardly meeting in an independent Boma in the 1900s would be a great scene. Set in 1905, so you can have news of the Russians being defeated by the Japanese as a background piece of news, since that had such impact on anti-colonial thought.
 
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