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Naval Gazing 12: Cold Warriors

Thande

BidenHarris, vaccine, England's got the same Queen
Published by SLP
Thanks for the images and editing. This one doesn't seem to want to tweet out for some reason - so don't be surprised if three copies of it appear on our Twitter account at some point...
 

Thande

BidenHarris, vaccine, England's got the same Queen
Published by SLP
The comparison with the 19th Century there is an interesting one. Particularly as people tend to assume that the latter just didn't have that feeling of ever possible war going on.
It certainly wasn't as strong as in the Cold War, but there was paranoia in the UK about sudden French invasion in the 1840s, then the later invasion literature and so on.
 

Death's Companion

General Ugg Apologist.
I'd also throw in the question of who would be sinking those US Carriers as the Soviet Submariners by the late Cold War at least lived in constant terror as they assumed more or less correctly that NATO ususally had a good grasp of where they were and they did not know where the enemy subs were.

Exercises are also really bad at showing what would happen in war time when people do that annoying thing where they move and cheat and take gambles or play safe depending on who is in charge.
 

Thande

BidenHarris, vaccine, England's got the same Queen
Published by SLP
I'd also throw in the question of who would be sinking those US Carriers as the Soviet Submariners by the late Cold War at least lived in constant terror as they assumed more or less correctly that NATO ususally had a good grasp of where they were and they did not know where the enemy subs were.

Exercises are also really bad at showing what would happen in war time when people do that annoying thing where they move and cheat and take gambles or play safe depending on who is in charge.
Personally I'd say it's an irrelevant question regardless because that's not the kind of war you're going to fight - and if you do, everything goes so it doesn't really matter.
 

Death's Companion

General Ugg Apologist.
Personally I'd say it's an irrelevant question regardless because that's not the kind of war you're going to fight - and if you do, everything goes so it doesn't really matter.
I'm not sure tbh.

Because whilst people have been saying Aircraft Carriers are white elephants since 1945 I can't see the ability to sink other ships, protect national air space, support ground operations or wreck enemy territory would not be a factor in WWIII.

Like we'd probably end up nuking each other in short order but if anything those Carriers and the like would be the things to survive and be crucial to any restabalisation efforts.
 

Redolegna

Champagne Socialist
Moderator
Published by SLP
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Incredibly minor and pedantic correction time: it's not 'one of France's carriers', it's the only one since we retired the Foch and the Clemenceau.

You'll notice we have trouble naming ships after successful admirals, on account of there aren't many.

The "cruiser gap" story is amazing. I wonder if anyone has ever tried naming their weapons something impressive-sounding in a foreign language to do this delibertately?
It's not quite the same level, but the program nicknamed 'Star Wars' in the Reagan era did something similar to the Soviets.
 

Thande

BidenHarris, vaccine, England's got the same Queen
Published by SLP
Incredibly minor and pedantic correction time: it's not 'one of France's carriers', it's the only one since we retired the Foch and the Clemenceau.
I forgot you cancelled the one that was supposed to supplement the Charles de Gaulle, the one which would have been built to the same or a similar design to the two new British ones.
 

Archibald

Well-known member
Patreon supporter
I forgot you cancelled the one that was supposed to supplement the Charles de Gaulle, the one which would have been built to the same or a similar design to the two new British ones.
At the beginning (1987- 1997) the CdG was to have a clone. Then the British started retiring the Invincibles and thinking "big carrier" again - except that created an intractable conundrum for the French: CVF and CdG were too different, unlike Foch and Clemenceau. The debate lasted 15 more years before Sarkozy ( for once in his presidency, if not his entire life) took a CLEVER decision: he cancelled the second carrier.
 

Thande

BidenHarris, vaccine, England's got the same Queen
Published by SLP
I'm rather looking forward to the next in this series.
To forestall any disappointment, I did That Thande Thing where I underestimated how many words I'd need - so the next one only covers the Bangladeshi War of Independence, leaving the one after for the Falklands.
 
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