- Location
- Tamaki Makaurau
Those are available on the Wikipedia pages of the relevant elections.
-
Hi Guest!
The costs of running this forum are covered by Sea Lion Press. If you'd like to help support the company and the forum, visit patreon.com/sealionpress
Mazda's Maps and Mwikiboxes
- Thread starter Uhura's Mazda
- Start date
- Location
- Das Böse ist immer und überall
- Pronouns
- he/him
Yeeeeeees, but I don't see how that precludes you from making your election map comprehensible to the outside viewer?
- Location
- Tamaki Makaurau
Er, because my purpose in making these maps was to satisfy my own curiosity as to the regional strengths of the right-wing parties, and any enjoyment derived from such by other people would be a happy coincidence. I'm not particularly interested in electorate winners and margins right now, because all of this information is available on Wikipedia. And I've already done 1931 on the Other Place, in any case.
I was ready to comply with your request until you posted this, btw, but as it transpires that the "outside viewer" is a sarky dickhead, I won't bother.
- Location
- Das Böse ist immer und überall
- Pronouns
- he/him
If they're for internal use, that's a different matter - I suppose I was confused by the writeups, I've been doing this long enough to have Particular Views.
ladies and gentlemen, the three-time regional champion in Dishing it O-[GETS KILLED BY 16-TON WEIGHT]
- Location
- Tamaki Makaurau
Completely different situation, I never act like a cunt about something that someone's put some effort into.
I'm actually really annoyed by your attitude here. If I went and commented on one of your TLs that, no, sorry, the outside viewer just wants a spy thriller about Harold Wilson, thanks, I'd be a dickhead. So you coming to tell me that you've been doing this a very long time (I've been doing election maps since 2015, so I've been around long enough, thanks, mate) and that you think I'll find that majority-shaded election maps are the only worthwhile form of map and that if I dare do a write-up about a map that might not be utterly accessible to the lay person I am evidently a fucking idiot... is a bit Much.
- Location
- Das Böse ist immer und überall
- Pronouns
- he/him
You know what, that's absolutely fair and I apologise. I never quite know where I am with you as far as the c a u s t i c tone goes, and - not to make this about me, but this is a problem I have in general. No harm was meant by any of it, I was genuinely trying to offer advice in what turned out to be a deeply inappropriate tone. And the "I've been doing this for a while" bit (which for some reason I feel I have to keep pontificating about) wasn't meant as "get off my lawn you whippersnapper", it was meant as "I recognise that I may be set in my ways". I absolutely do think there's value in shading by party.
- Location
- Tamaki Makaurau
Yes, the odd popularity of the Democrats in a bunch of electorates is very interesting - the relative success of the incumbent MPs is fair enough, but there are others where I can only assume the candidate was some sort of Beatably Popular Local Bloke.
The Maori electorates were created very early on, in 1867, because most Maori weren't otherwise eligible to vote - there weren't any race-based rules, but you had to own property in order to have the vote, and Maori land tended to be owned on a communal basis, hence no individually owned property, hence no vote. The electorates were created with manhood suffrage, to last until Maori adopted European attitudes to land title (the original law optimistically expected that this would take up to five years). What actually happened, of course, was that the Europeans adopted manhood suffrage a little later, but the system was already established by that stage and Maori tended to really like having specific representatives rather than just hoping that Europeans would vote for Maori candidates, and that those MPs would vote for Maori issues rather than those of their party or electorate. Between 1919 and 1975, no Maori MPs sat for non-Maori electorates.
Maori electorates were very late to change from verbal to paper ballots, and to the secret ballot. What would happen was that everyone who wanted to vote (there were no electoral rolls in Maori electorates until the 1940s, so I really mean "everyone who wanted to vote") turned up at a central place, the candidates would present themselves, and then there'd be an argument until an MP had been decided upon. If carried out properly, the number of people verbally supporting each candidate would be recorded, otherwise the numbers would just be approximated.
The other thing was that the number of electorates was set at four until 1996 and the only boundary changes undergone in the Maori seats took place in 1953. The main change in 1953 was that the Southern Maori electorate was expanded to take in a huge swathe of the North Island, due to the fact that there are virtually no Maori in the South Island. For instance, Eruera Tirikatene's by-election in Southern Maori had the highest turnout ever experienced in that electorate, with 951 voters. Population disparities between electorates were maintained until 1996 - of course, when the four were originally created, the Maori population was slightly larger than the non-Maori population, so four seats were a bit of an insult. Low voter numbers are explained by the fact that, come on, I'm not going to travel for weeks just to vote for some random guy.
There has of course been a lot of criticism of the Maori electorates on a lot of grounds (there was a spate of Apartheid comparisons at one stage) but most Maori seem to approve of their retention under the current model, to facilitate their specialised representation. However, most white people disagree: over the weekend, four local referendums were held to rubber-stamp the decisions of various Councils to create Maori wards along the same lines, but all were defeated. Old white people, naturally, were able and very keen to vote on the issue.
I'm now wondering what it would have looked like if this concept had been brought in back in the homeland, so extra floterial seats were created in the 1870s/1880s for working-class men (and perhaps later women) who didn't meet the property qualification.
Then eventually we go over to universal suffrage, but some people insist on being True to their Working Class Heritage and voting in the floterial seats instead, so the government can never get away with abolishing them...
- Location
- Auckland via London
- Pronouns
- He/him
What franchise were university seats based on? Could it be an extension of that?
- Location
- Tamaki Makaurau
That's an interesting thought. Two ways of doing it, as far as I can see: either a straight-up negative property qualification (i.e. those owning less than 40 shillings' worth of land) or, more enjoyably, anyone who can claim 1/64th descent from a coal miner.
- Location
- Municipal Commune of Bourne
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[MY FAMILY IS STILL NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE BECAUSE GREAT GRANDDAD MUMBY WAS A SPIV]
- Location
- Auckland via London
- Pronouns
- He/him
So what you're saying is working class people should get multiple votes?
It's this kind of content that makes this site worth it, really.
It's the only Dreiklassenwahlrecht compatible with the People's Republic.
The discussion on the creation and evolution of the Maori seats was very interesting, thank you, @Uhura's Mazda. It's really astonishing to see the difference with Australia.
No, I was thinking one or the other here--though it would be interesting to see *Labour etc advocate that to balance wealthy people with fagot votes* rather than just abolishing them.
(*the good thing about this site being run by people who know things is that I don't have to explain that that does not mean what you think it means)
- Location
- Derbyshire
A system featuring FPTP floterial constituencies for different ranks in wealth, with the Lords converted into a Technical Senate where the Lords themselves form one of the professions...
- Location
- Municipal Commune of Bourne
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is all starting to sound a bit like my on-again-off-again 'Democracy Delayed' project.
The idea was more to do with delaying the expansion of suffrage that happened in 1918 for as long as possible.
- Location
- Tamaki Makaurau
As 2018 wore on, the narrative around Simon Bridges' weakness as National Leader cemented around the idea that he needed "mates" - i.e. other parties who could go into coalition with National to get them over the 50% line. He had been consulting around this issue since he became Leader, particularly around a new blue-green vehicle, a renewed Maori Party, and something he tellingly called a "Lance O'Sullivan Party", led by the Northland Maori doctor and former Man of the Year. O'Sullivan himself had been in talks with most of the parties in the country, the subject of these talks being whether he could immediately become Leader and dictate policy, and if not, how soon this state of affairs could be put in place.
Bridges was unwilling to allow any of his hungry caucus to form their own minor party - there was a very real risk that if Judith Collins split off, the rest would follow her. He also knew that a new party would be unlikely to achieve much without an existing MP or a big name attached.
Reading through the Electoral Act, the solution hit him: he didn't have to choose between the different options, he could simply create a centre-right copy of the old Alliance - a coalition of parties with a common broad manifesto and a common List, which could together cross the 5% threshold. And if O'Sullivan was made Leader of this Alliance, he wouldn't have to choose to join any particular party and would still get to be Leader. And the member parties of the Alliance would be too busy complaining about O'Sullivan's dickery to fall into dissension among themselves.
On the orders of Bridges, the ACT Party and the Maori Party agreed to the new Alliance - which, no better ideas having been had, was to be called the New Alliance. O'Sullivan himself brought TOP on board: they had come closest to making him Leader. Finally, the blue-green Outdoors Party joined in to bolster TOP's green policies and Roshan Nauhria's NZ People's Party entered the New Alliance on condition that a National-NA coalition would have him in the Ethnic Communities portfolio. Things were shaping up.
The press, of course, complained about the blatant opportunism of this liberal-Maori-green-blue-Other mishmash of parties, and mocked the name of the youth party, which was literally just called N/A. But the star power of O'Sullivan, Seymour and Marama Fox in one party, and the opportunity to get a less pale, male and stale partner for National proved to be appealing to the voters. Come the 2020 election, the New Alliance beat their right-wing minor rivals, New Conservative, into a cocked hat. O'Sullivan even defeated Labour Deputy Leader Kelvin Davis in the Te Tai Tokerau seat.
In response to the popularity of the New Alliance and the obviously nonexistent future of NZ First, the left attempted a similar manoeuvre: Shane Jones' remnant of NZ First joined forces with the Democrats for Social Credit, the Internet Party, Hone Harawita's Mana Movement and the Cannabis Party. These parties were united by autarchic and anti-Establishment attitudes, and by a surprising amount of policy cross-over. Hoping that their (majority) pro-legalisation stance would help to differentiate their brand in the year of the Cannabis Referendum, this coalition called themselves the Kiwi Kannabis Koalition. Ultimately, this proved to be an unwise strategy.
As such, the Shane Jones coalition merely denied the Green Party their place in Parliament - it was now Labour who - despite coming first in the popular vote - were friendless in Opposition, while Simon Bridges dealt with disloyal backbenchers and over-mighty support partners. 2023 seems like a long time away.