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Mazda's Maps and Mwikiboxes

Sideways

assigned sideways at birth
Published by SLP
Location
Teignmouth, Devon
Pronouns
She/Her
I love how Labour didn't really benefit from FPTP despite their beliefs at the time that PR hurt them. If they'd done this election by FPTP I wonder if we may have had MMP in Westminster by now

Do you have tables for this?
 

Uhura's Mazda

Batllist the Fascllist
Published by SLP
Location
Tamaki Makaurau
I love how Labour didn't really benefit from FPTP despite their beliefs at the time that PR hurt them. If they'd done this election by FPTP I wonder if we may have had MMP in Westminster by now

Do you have tables for this?
For whatever reason, the party that came second in the popular vote in Euro FPTP elections usually got roughly the proportional amount of seats (in this case, it would have been exactly right), while the seats which would have gone third-party went to the party that came first. So FPTP delivered substantial benefits to Labour in '89 and especially '94 - but didn't benefit them compared to PR in '79 or '84. Of course, we can't know whether PR hurt them in this election because we don't know where the UKIP and Green votes would have gone. Long-term, PR for Euro elections has unquestionably hurt Labour and harmed the country as a whole, by allowing people to exercise their [SPITS] democratic wills.

I wrote over my spreadsheet as I went, but David Boothroyd has the votes by Westminster constituency two third of the way down this page and the proposed Euro constituency boundaries at the bottom of this page.
 

Nanwe

The Troika always wins
Location
Brussels
For whatever reason, the party that came second in the popular vote in Euro FPTP elections usually got roughly the proportional amount of seats (in this case, it would have been exactly right), while the seats which would have gone third-party went to the party that came first. So FPTP delivered substantial benefits to Labour in '89 and especially '94 - but didn't benefit them compared to PR in '79 or '84. Of course, we can't know whether PR hurt them in this election because we don't know where the UKIP and Green votes would have gone. Long-term, PR for Euro elections has unquestionably hurt Labour and harmed the country as a whole, by allowing people to exercise their [SPITS] democratic wills.
This, funnily enough, sounds quite a bit like how the Spanish electoral system works in practice, or worked before 2011, with the second-largest national party getting roughly the same % of seats as of votes, but the most-voted gaining a bonus from the under-representation of the minor national parties.
 

Uhura's Mazda

Batllist the Fascllist
Published by SLP
Location
Tamaki Makaurau
It’s also, of course, literally how the Turkish electoral system is designed.
Could it be something to do with d'Hondt, perhaps? Obviously all systems will over-represent the major parties and under-represent those below the threshold (whether that threshold is 0.6%, 10% or 'one vote fewer than the other guy', but maybe there's a tendency for d'Hondt and FPTP to deliver the benefits disproportionately to the major party.
 

Uhura's Mazda

Batllist the Fascllist
Published by SLP
Location
Tamaki Makaurau
As an addendum to the above, I've found half an hour of the 1984 Euro election coverage on YT (it's extraordinarily lifeless) and now present their Computer Forecast Map after half a dozen results. Note that Winnie Ewing's victory in Highlands and Islands in 1979 was so narrow that ITV predicted a Liberal gain next time round.

The Midlands look a bit more sensible on the '84 boundaries, but it's not a very detailed map.

Euro84.png
 

Uhura's Mazda

Batllist the Fascllist
Published by SLP
Location
Tamaki Makaurau
STV is used in Euro elections until 1999, when Prime Minister Hattersley introduces a national list. The proportionality of the system normalises the National Front in the Brussels delegation from 1979, although there is a series of very public splits which prevents the far-right vote from taking off until the 21st century.

The preferential system allows the SDP to campaign separately from the Liberals for first-preference votes, and Owen jumps at the chance to fight a non-Alliance campaign in which he sets out an anti-federalist tone to differentiate the Alliance parties. The Eurosceptics of the West Country provide him with a secure seat until the national list is introduced, at which point the SDP is able to elect some new faces like Julia Reid and Patrick O'Flynn. After the split of 1988, Owen takes the SDP into the Gaullist-Fianna Fail group, where he still sits alongside the SNP (Scotland '79 (GUE-NGL) first won a Euro seat in South-Central Scotland in '94).

The surprise election of almost a dozen Green MEPs in 1989 leads (yet again) to a split between the pro-Europeans and the Small is Beautiful crowd which takes place in the fullness of the media glare. Since then, the decentralists have merged with Michael Meadowcroft's Radical Party to form the Green Liberals, who sit with various regionalists and radical centrists in the European Radical Alliance.

As usual, the BNP are underpolled in this election, but they make history by making a final-week surge, coming first and winning 24 seats. They continue to sit, however, with the Technical Group of Independents as the European far-right isn't represented in enough countries to be allowed a Euro-group of their own.

Euro84.png
 

Yokai Man

Well-known member
STV is used in Euro elections until 1999, when Prime Minister Hattersley introduces a national list. The proportionality of the system normalises the National Front in the Brussels delegation from 1979, although there is a series of very public splits which prevents the far-right vote from taking off until the 21st century.

The preferential system allows the SDP to campaign separately from the Liberals for first-preference votes, and Owen jumps at the chance to fight a non-Alliance campaign in which he sets out an anti-federalist tone to differentiate the Alliance parties. The Eurosceptics of the West Country provide him with a secure seat until the national list is introduced, at which point the SDP is able to elect some new faces like Julia Reid and Patrick O'Flynn. After the split of 1988, Owen takes the SDP into the Gaullist-Fianna Fail group, where he still sits alongside the SNP (Scotland '79 (GUE-NGL) first won a Euro seat in South-Central Scotland in '94).

The surprise election of almost a dozen Green MEPs in 1989 leads (yet again) to a split between the pro-Europeans and the Small is Beautiful crowd which takes place in the fullness of the media glare. Since then, the decentralists have merged with Michael Meadowcroft's Radical Party to form the Green Liberals, who sit with various regionalists and radical centrists in the European Radical Alliance.

As usual, the BNP are underpolled in this election, but they make history by making a final-week surge, coming first and winning 24 seats. They continue to sit, however, with the Technical Group of Independents as the European far-right isn't represented in enough countries to be allowed a Euro-group of their own.

View attachment 10137
oh no

What’s the rest of the timeline like,btw? That is,if you want to answer the question.I know you’re a busy man and can’t always post to everyone(nor do you probably want,which is understandable).

I may disagree with you politically but I admire you as a writer and you have inspired me so many way artistically.Thank you for your work.
 

Uhura's Mazda

Batllist the Fascllist
Published by SLP
Location
Tamaki Makaurau
oh no

What’s the rest of the timeline like,btw? That is,if you want to answer the question.I know you’re a busy man and can’t always post to everyone(nor do you probably want,which is understandable).

I may disagree with you politically but I admire you as a writer and you have inspired me so many way artistically.Thank you for your work.
Haven't thought much about the world beyond the UK European Parliament results, to be honest. I had the idea to do an innovative, never-before-seen type of PM List in which I'd trace the development of the parties through their Euro-group memberships, but quickly realised that the reason this has never been seen before is that it's quite boring and requires more thought than it really deserves. Then I had the idea to do it this way before realising that I'd have to think of about a bajillion poll results which would add absolutely nothing to the piece - hence the abrupt cutoff.

An insight into the mind of the lazy storyteller.

The phreshest thing that didn't make the cut was James Goldsmith leading 'Majority Against Maastricht' to a solid performance in 1994, now that he's got more of a choice about which country he runs in. There's also some cool Green butterflies, but I'm repurposing those for a later List.

Thanks for the kind words!
 

Yokai Man

Well-known member
Haven't thought much about the world beyond the UK European Parliament results, to be honest. I had the idea to do an innovative, never-before-seen type of PM List in which I'd trace the development of the parties through their Euro-group memberships, but quickly realised that the reason this has never been seen before is that it's quite boring and requires more thought than it really deserves. Then I had the idea to do it this way before realising that I'd have to think of about a bajillion poll results which would add absolutely nothing to the piece - hence the abrupt cutoff.

An insight into the mind of the lazy storyteller.

The phreshest thing that didn't make the cut was James Goldsmith leading 'Majority Against Maastricht' to a solid performance in 1994, now that he's got more of a choice about which country he runs in. There's also some cool Green butterflies, but I'm repurposing those for a later List.

Thanks for the kind words!
Thank you.
 

Uhura's Mazda

Batllist the Fascllist
Published by SLP
Location
Tamaki Makaurau
you, a fool: While the OTL result of introducing PR for European elections was to boost non-Liberal minor parties, this probably wouldn't have been the case in 1979 because the only other major-minor was the National Front, which was on a downswing and didn't even stand in the OTL '79 Euros because of the internal chaos caused by the disappointing general election result.

me, an intellectual:

Defections.png
 

Yokai Man

Well-known member
you, a fool: While the OTL result of introducing PR for European elections was to boost non-Liberal minor parties, this probably wouldn't have been the case in 1979 because the only other major-minor was the National Front, which was on a downswing and didn't even stand in the OTL '79 Euros because of the internal chaos caused by the disappointing general election result.

me, an intellectual:

View attachment 10249
National Labour-Nick Griffin

STRASSERITE PARTY

[RAMSEY MACDONALD STREAMS AND CRIES]
 

Redolegna

Champagne Socialist
Moderator
Published by SLP
Location
Paris
Pronouns
he/him
you, a fool: While the OTL result of introducing PR for European elections was to boost non-Liberal minor parties, this probably wouldn't have been the case in 1979 because the only other major-minor was the National Front, which was on a downswing and didn't even stand in the OTL '79 Euros because of the internal chaos caused by the disappointing general election result.

me, an intellectual:

View attachment 10249
Not sure the switch to FN would have been possible under the reason for expulsion from NF. Otherwise love it.
 

Uhura's Mazda

Batllist the Fascllist
Published by SLP
Location
Tamaki Makaurau
Not sure the switch to FN would have been possible under the reason for expulsion from NF. Otherwise love it.
I'm imagining a bitter rivalry for leadership within the European National Front between Le Pen and Tyndall, with Le Pen choosing to believe Webster's side of the story as an opportunistic way of embarrassing Tyndall.
@Uhura's Mazda - okay you gotta have to explain Jean Lambert here. She left the Greens because they were too pro Europe and then left Referendum because... They were too anti Europe?
It's mainly a joke, but also, Green policy on Europe (muddled at the time) will have been pushed to the forefront if they'd been elected to the EP. With the stakes being higher and the lives of the protagonists more stressful, I can easily see a development of personal tensions and a 'digging in' effect as moderate Euro-sceptics and -philes become more certain of their position and more extreme within that position. Lambert, who was one of those less keen on Europe in the 90s, gets out of the battlefield by joining Goldsmith's new anti-Maastricht party, which 'only wants a referendum'.

And then, when they all turn out to be posh bastards who want to Trade With The World, she becomes one of the moderates within the party (and also the member most familiar with working within European institutions) and realises her mistake.
 

Thande

UP THE WORKERS!
Published by SLP
As an addendum to the above, I've found half an hour of the 1984 Euro election coverage on YT (it's extraordinarily lifeless) and now present their Computer Forecast Map after half a dozen results. Note that Winnie Ewing's victory in Highlands and Islands in 1979 was so narrow that ITV predicted a Liberal gain next time round.

The Midlands look a bit more sensible on the '84 boundaries, but it's not a very detailed map.

View attachment 10117
Excellent find! I love the extremely 80s impenetrable logo.
 

Uhura's Mazda

Batllist the Fascllist
Published by SLP
Location
Tamaki Makaurau
Excellent find! I love the extremely 80s impenetrable logo.
I should really have linked it - but be warned! Because it's ITV, it includes adverts which will send even the sturdiest Thande into a frenzy (including Hugh Laurie selling Polaroids and BR flogging a parcel delivery service) and the full intro is positively ludicrous.