Auto Industry AHs

[Coiler]

From there, I could see MG being Ford's sporty brand and Rover fulfilling the same role in the UK as Mercury in North America as an entry-level premium brand as a stepping stone to Jaguar. From there, it would be easy for MG to try to come something close to its original sports-car heritage, even hitting the retro trend with reviving the MGB (as what happened OTL with the RV8) and Midget, since it has the resources both of Ford's performance divisions as well as Mazda. Only the Mini would be exempt and basically be following its own thing. Meanwhile, the other marques inherited with the acquisition of Austin Rover would be more problematic.

I'm having a hard time thinking of modernized "MGBs" being anything other than rebadged Miatas.

 

[Oppo]

I'm having a hard time thinking of modernized "MGBs" being anything other than rebadged Miatas.

1980s Ford IOTL was working on the Capri and the Probe and MG made the mid-engined MG F in 1995.

 

[Dan1988]

I'm having a hard time thinking of modernized "MGBs" being anything other than rebadged Miatas.

Behold, one OTL potential in the MG RV8:
http://autoweek.com/article/car-life/one-last-hurrah-1994-mg-rv8

Source: http://www.bmcexperience.com.au/bmce-issue13/mg-rv8
Now, imagine something like that, with that same bodyshell (and maybe the same interior, too!) along with anything else off the shelf in terms of Ford and ex-BL technology. If something like this can be pumped out ITTL well before the MX-5/Eunos, that would be good news for MG.

 

[Simon]

I'm having a hard time thinking of modernized "MGBs" being anything other than rebadged Miatas.

IIRC didn't that come about because one of the senior Mazda guys asked a journalist what he thought they should be making and he told them a sports cars like MG and Triumph used to make but had stopped doing?

 

[Dan1988]

Here's a POD I just found when trying to source a claim from Wiki about Ford selling the Corcel in Canada (no luck on that!):

FORD "GOL"
Ele parece um Ford Aspire — o compacto baseado no Kia Avella que a Ford vendeu nos EUA e Canadá entre 1993 e 2000 — mas, na verdade era um compacto que a Ford estava desenvolvendo com base no Gol de segunda geração durante os tempos da Autolatina. Na época a Volkswagen vendia o Logus e o Pointer baseados no Escort/Verona e a Ford pretendia desenvolver um compacto menor que o Escort para entrar no segmento dos compactos. Que base poderia ser melhor que o campeão nacional de vendas?

Há poucas informações concretas sobre o projeto, mas segundo rumores da época, a Volkswagen não gostou nem um pouco de ver que a Ford pretendia concorrer com o Gol com um modelo próprio. O conflito de interesses entre as marcas levou à decisão de mútua de encerrar a parceria em 1994, algo que se concretizou dois anos mais tarde. Sem o Gol para servir de base ao seu compacto, a Ford passou a importar o Fiesta da Espanha em 1995 e a produzi-lo no Brasil a partir do ano seguinte.

Source: https://www.flatout.com.br/os-carros-perdidos-que-ford-quase-fabricou-no-brasil/
If I'm reading the Portuguese right, apparently while Ford and VW were tied up in the Autolatina JV, Ford apparently seriously considered building a comparable vehicle to the Fiesta in Brazil - only instead of localizing the Fiesta, the initial plan was to built it on the same platform as the VW Gol (VW Fox in North America) with a bodystyle exactly similar to the Ford Aspire in North America. That did not work out, and instead Ford ended up importing the Fiesta to Brazil anyway. Still, it would be a sight to see - and maybe with a more stable Brazilian real during this period (the fluctuations in the Brazilian currency were a big problem for the Fox when it was sold in the US and Canada) it could serve as a revived Ford Festiva in o Norte as well.

 

[Hendryk]

One amusing detail about the post-WW2 German car industry is that for a while, you had former aircraft manufacturers such as Heinkel and Messerschmitt churning out cheap microcars. I wonder if there's AH potential there.

In France, Louis Renault dying before 1940 would mean that the government doesn't confiscate his assets after the end of the German occupation, and the company isn't nationalized. This could have significant effects on the French car industry as a whole.

 

[Creekmench]

One amusing detail about the post-WW2 German car industry is that for a while, you had former aircraft manufacturers such as Heinkel and Messerschmitt churning out cheap microcars. I wonder if there's AH potential there.

In France, Louis Renault dying before 1940 would mean that the government doesn't confiscate his assets after the end of the German occupation, and the company isn't nationalized. This could have significant effects on the French car industry as a whole.

"We were in Warsaw on our Heinkel microcar when the drugs grasped at our minds."

 

[Dan1988]

One amusing detail about the post-WW2 German car industry is that for a while, you had former aircraft manufacturers such as Heinkel and Messerschmitt churning out cheap microcars. I wonder if there's AH potential there.

Ah, yes, I've seen photos of the Messerschmitt cars. Would be interesting if they continued producing them.
(As an aside, the whole aircraft-manufacturers-banned-from-making-aircraft thing is how Subaru began to exist in the first place, though unlike Messerschmitt the Nakajima Aircraft Company was forcibly broken up and thus its former engineers were scattered all over the place. No breakup of the Nakajima Aircraft Company - or if Nakajima diversified into other businesses à la Mitsubishi - then not only would there be no Subaru, but the Japanese auto industry would look very different.)

In France, Louis Renault dying before 1940 would mean that the government doesn't confiscate his assets after the end of the German occupation, and the company isn't nationalized. This could have significant effects on the French car industry as a whole.

Now there's a POD worth exploring. Another French auto industry POD: Ford-France choosing to produce a vehicle other than the Vedette. Even if it initially takes vehicles from other European subsidiaries and renaming them into something more appropriately French, the Vedette was basically the wrong car for the times.

 

[Dan1988]

While working on something else, I came across this old commercial for the Acadian (basically a Chevy II rebadged for Canadian Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers due to the intricacies of the Canadian market in the 1960s pre-Auto Pact):

And it got me thinking as a potential POD. Now I'm aware that GM Canada exported its Pontiac range under varying different names across the globe, because the Canadian Pontiacs were small enough for export even in Europe (since they were actually Chevrolets in drag - before the Auto Pact it would have been prohibitively expensive to import US-built Pontiacs to Canada, so GM Canada adapted by replicating the range using Chevy vehicles as the base). Could a vehicle like the Acadian work in Europe, either under its own name or under Opel/Vauxhall? Especially if the fuel economy issue that drags down US cars in Europe gets resolved early on?

 

[von mises]

Seems like Betteridge's law applies even to journal articles. No idea on how to get the full article though.

Can a simple heat treatment help to save Detroit?

 

[Simon]

From a thread on the Other Place someone linked to an interesting site, which looks to currently be down so via the Wayback Machine, about Roy Fedden's idea for a British equivalent to Volkswagen to build a people's car.

 

[Arthur_Phuxache]

Picture from Fedden's biography by Bill Gunston. I'm not sure about the faired-over rear wheels. 3 cylinder sleeve-valve (natch) engine. The prototype had severe cornering problems (tucking under).

Would prefer a Bristol Blenheim Mk 1, myself (it's electric)

 

[EvilSpaceAlien]

An interesting Swedish/European POD would be the planned merger of Volvo and Saab-Scania actually taking place. It came real close in 1977, but was called off due to resistance from Saab's CEO and the board who feared that Saab as the junior partner would lose it's identity and eventually wither away as a car brand under the stronger Volvo. That's certainly not an impossible outcome given the poor profitability of Saab's car division, but maybe a merger could actually be a success even if Volvo would certainly be the more dominant brand out of the two. By that time Saab had already started limited production of the 99 Turbo and the 900 was set to start production the following year, pointing Saab in a direction where it could perhaps become more of a premium brand which could act as a nice complement to Volvo which focuses on larger segments of the market.

I don't know if it would be enough to save the car divisions from eventually ending up in foreign ownership one way or the other, but it certainly doesn't seem that unlikely that Volvo-Saab could survive as an independent carmaker up to this day.

 

[Coiler]

By that time Saab had already started limited production of the 99 Turbo and the 900 was set to start production the following year, pointing Saab in a direction where it could perhaps become more of a premium brand which could act as a nice complement to Volvo which focuses on larger segments of the market.

Saab's only hope for survival, regardless of who owns it, is to maintain (if not exceed) its OTL volume while being able to charge luxury-level prices. Otherwise it's just too low-margin and too small.