Architectural AH

[OHC]

While I am very, very far from anything resembling expertise, architectural history is a fertile field for AH, and I thought it might be good to have a central thread for it. Major published writers have dabbled in alt-itechture - I believe Fatherland touches on a completed Germania plan for Berlin - while the Palace of the Soviets and the Empire State Building’s zeppelin dock are staples of 20th century TLs. And of course I’d be remiss not to link to the work of @Alex Richards on this very forum.

A potential POD to start with: I work close to the Commonwealth Building, one of the first glass boxes in the world and holder of a number of other firsts including first aluminum sheathing and first sealed, air-conditioned design. It served as a prototype for countless other office towers over the next decades and made modernist Pietro Belluschi one of the biggest names in architecture.

WI Belluschi didn’t get the job? Maybe he never goes into the field, or never leaves Italy. If the Commonwealth Building is never constructed, or is built in a more traditional style, are glass office towers slower to catch on? What landmarks would look different if it took longer for the building’s innovations to seep into the field?

 

[Artaxerxes]

This thread is relevant to my interests.

 

[Dom]

@GuernseyDonkey will like this.

As do I.

 

[Alex Richards]

I think it's inevitable that somebody comes up with a similar design at some point, but I think it's possible that it's done worse and perhaps they don't get the air conditioning right and the 'fully sealed' aspect becomes somewhat discredited? That might have knock-on effects in terms of greater efforts towards improving air quality and reducing noise in Inner Cities if office buildings can't be sealed off from the effects as well.

 

[Guernsey Donkey]

To be honest, international was already inevitable, the year after you had 860 lake shore in Chicago from Mies van der Rohe. Which were based on a principle first started in the 1920s. The thing is that really you have to change ww1 to stop modernist architecture really.

So you might get more high tech buildings earlier which would be probably be bad as they are generally worse for climatical control.

Whats interesting is that we are pretty much exclusively taught about german modernist rather than italian.

 

[OHC]

To be honest, international was already inevitable, the year after you had 860 lake shore in Chicago from Mies van der Rohe. Which were based on a principle first started in the 1920s. The thing is that really you have to change ww1 to stop modernist architecture really.

So you might get more high tech buildings earlier which would be probably be bad as they are generally worse for climatical control.

Whats interesting is that we are pretty much exclusively taught about german modernist rather than italian.

As in you’d need changes around the time of WWI, or would a different outcome of the war directly change the style?

 

[Guernsey Donkey]

As in you’d need changes around the time of WWI, or would a different outcome of the war directly change the style?

A lot of modernist theory was developed in weinmar Germany mainly from the Bauhaus, with people such as mies leave Germany in the 30s and i assume similar with the Italian modernist when the fascists took over. As totalitarians tend towards classical architecture, see the constructionist in Russia.

Ultimately with steel and glass i don't think you are going to change modernist architecture too much without much larger changes to global cultural history.

 

[OHC]

Word. Iirc Belluschi himself decided not to go back to Italy after Mussolini took over, so that makes sense. I figured it would be difficult to derail modern / international completely.

Is there any merit to Alex’s suggestion about air conditioning?

 

[Guernsey Donkey]

Word. Iirc Belluschi himself decided not to go back to Italy after Mussolini took over, so that makes sense. I figured it would be difficult to derail modern / international completely.

Is there any merit to Alex’s suggestion about air conditioning?

The issue is that the second that air con/heating is invented. You don't have to consider environmental conditions anymore because you can brute force the climate whilst making the space nice.

You would have to somehow get large scale environmental architecture (which has only been worked out/popularised in the last 10-20 years) to be popular right at the same time as early curtain walling. You also would need double glazing really, as single glazing is just not insulating enough, see farnsworth house.

 

[Dom]

The Russians killed quite a few architects in the Crimea basically every time they took over. Wonder what buildings and styles we have lost to that.

 

[Guernsey Donkey]

A Palace of Westminster doesn't burn down would be interesting. I imagine that national pride at somepoint would be cause for some form of grand renovation/ rebuild.

 

[Alex Richards]

A Palace of Westminster doesn't burn down would be interesting. I imagine that national pride at somepoint would be cause for some form of grand renovation/ rebuild.

There were perennial plans for rebuilds every so often.

I suspect actually that in a world where the Palace doesn't burn down the Great Stink combines with the sheer inefficiency of the building to cause Parliament to just move to a new location on the outskirts of the city.

 

[Guernsey Donkey]

There were perennial plans for rebuilds every so often.

I suspect actually that in a world where the Palace doesn't burn down the Great Stink combines with the sheer inefficiency of the building to cause Parliament to just move to a new location on the outskirts of the city.

Where would that be kensington maybe? Actually that would be a really big change if London got even more de-centralised. Would their be a westminster park maybe.

 

[Alex Richards]

Where would that be kensington maybe? Actually that would be a really big change if London got even more de-centralised. Would their be a westminster park maybe.

Not so much a Westminster Park, unless the building burns down anyway.

Kensington seems like a possibility yes.

 

[Guernsey Donkey]

Not so much a Westminster Park, unless the building burns down anyway.

Kensington seems like a possibility yes.

I was more thinking if the government has moved out of Westminster, which i would slowly do if parliament moved what would end up going there?

Could be the terminus for the brighton railway rather than Victoria.

 

[Alex Richards]

I was more thinking if the government has moved out of Westminster, which i would slowly do if parliament moved what would end up going there?

Could be the terminus for the brighton railway rather than Victoria.

I think the people calling for the preservation of the old chambers at least would probably be too strong to ignore. Plus the Abbey would object and that would get HM to put pressure against it. Maybe the PoD is they decide not to burn the old tally sticks and they decide to make it the home of the National Archives in a 'why don't we just keep all the junk in one place' sort of vein.

 

[Lemon flavoured]

unless the building burns down anyway.

Which is quite possible, given the nature of it.

Of course it's no better now in OTL...

 

[Guernsey Donkey]

I think the people calling for the preservation of the old chambers at least would probably be too strong to ignore. Plus the Abbey would object and that would get HM to put pressure against it. Maybe the PoD is they decide not to burn the old tally sticks and they decide to make it the home of the National Archives in a 'why don't we just keep all the junk in one place' sort of vein.

Fair enough.

Now i think that the new Kensington parliament would still be Gothic if done in the 1850s, though I would need to look up to see when the styles would change over again. Though Pugin would most probably be dead, so you might have an Barry solo project which would be more Italianate in style.

edit: Actually thinking about that no Pugin Parliament would probably slow down gothic and it might not become the victorian style and could be replaced with something else. I would need to see what the next big building was built was, but there could have been a different revival architecture that became the default maybe a Neo-Baroque

 

[Comisario]

Fair enough.

Now i think that the new Kensington parliament would still be Gothic if done in the 1850s, though I would need to look up to see when the styles would change over again. Though Pugin would most probably be dead, so you might have an Barry solo project which would be more Italianate in style.

edit: Actually thinking about that no Pugin Parliament would probably slow down gothic and it might not become the victorian style and could be replaced with something else. I would need to see what the next big building was built was, but there could have been a different revival architecture that became the default maybe a Neo-Baroque

This is my jam.

By the 1850s, we’re still in the moral or campaigning phase of the Gothic Revival and the very ideas attached to the architecture might suggest a Gothic building regardless. However, the ‘Battle of the Styles’ is still raging and the aesthetic sensibilities of the Whigs in power (not uniform, of course, but trending towards the Neoclassical) might mean a design competition rigged towards a known Neoclassical architect. Just as in the struggle for the Foreign Office building we know today, Palmerston (or some other Whig, but more likely as not to be Palmerston) could find someone more amenable to his design vision than George Gilbert Scott.

 

[OHC]

This is my jam.

By the 1850s, we’re still in the moral or campaigning phase of the Gothic Revival and the very ideas attached to the architecture might suggest a Gothic building regardless. However, the ‘Battle of the Styles’ is still raging and the aesthetic sensibilities of the Whigs in power (not uniform, of course, but trending towards the Neoclassical) might mean a design competition rigged towards a known Neoclassical architect. Just as in the struggle for the Foreign Office building we know today, Palmerston (or some other Whig, but more likely as not to be Palmerston) could find someone more amenable to his design vision than George Gilbert Scott.

Would there be backlash if the Whigs rammed through a neoclassical Parliament? Would it be seen as looking too republican for British sensibilities?