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2019 Britain ISOT to November 1944?

There's an awful lot of chaps in France and the Low Countries who could be picked up by Chinook and would quickly pick up how things worked, and that may well be more beneficial to the war, but it's not going to be a question of that. We've gone back in time to the tail-end of the worst crime in history, the government is going to do something about it, do it immediately, and tell the Board of Deputies that they have indeed sprung immediately into action.
I suppose I'm reminded of those rather testy conversations I had with my grandfather about not bombing or otherwise imperiling the Final Solution. He would get quite angry, saying the best way to stop it was to stop the war. He was very defensive about it.

Still, the image of Chinooks disgorging WWII -era men into Auschwitz is... appealing.
 
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It suddenly occurs to me that Anne Frank is still alive at this point. Obviously one amidst thousands, but I imagine she in particular is going to be a symbol of what happens differently.
She would be a very different symbol, if a symbol at all. Part of her "appeal" is dying in the waning weeks of the war.
 
I suppose I'm reminded of those rather testy conversations I had with my grandfather about not bombing or otherwise imperiling the Final Solution. He would get quite angry, saying the best way to stop it was to stop the war. He was very defensive about it.

Still, the image of Chinooks discouraging WWII -era men into Auschwitz is... appealing.
I agree, some very, very poor decisions were made IOTL and sadly they cannot all be called mistakes. But we know that now and, yeah, we wouldn't do it again. Even being cynical, it wouldn't be politically viable to do anything else.
 
Wait, what happens to morale in 21st Army Group when the news is broken that, er, sorry, your loved ones and families and friends no longer exist?
 
its not like 'we' forget the events of what happened IOTL just because we got ISOT'd
True. But that would only be applicable for the uptimers. The downtimers would obviously be able to read her diary but it (and Anne's life if she's saved) would probably take a very different course. That's all I'm saying.

(It's not 'we' though. I'm left wondering WTF happened in 2019. ;))

I agree, some very, very poor decisions were made IOTL and sadly they cannot all be called mistakes. But we know that now and, yeah, we wouldn't do it again. Even being cynical, it wouldn't be politically viable to do anything else.
I suppose it would be up to the interests of HMG what's more pressing, ending the war or ending the humanitarian crisis. I'm sure both could be done at the same time but I'd imagine resources and nerves would be strained by the ISOT.

Meanwhile, another thought... the chain of command for the downtimers is gone. It's going to take time to integrate and train them with modern weapons, not to mention a problem to supply the forces on the Continent. How would this affect the push into Germany?
 
Sadly November 1944 is only two months before OTL, but you can bet your house that a subject of the second COBR meeting (after 'erm, what') will be special operations to immediately put operatives on the ground in and around all known concentration and death camps.

I appreciate the sentiment, but the Brits of today don't really have a sustainable way to do that. Eight Globemasters, fourteen Voyagers, and twenty-two Hercules are flatly not enough airlift to pull off that sort of mission, since practically you'd be looking at an average of fourteen of the forty four aircraft being available, provided all craft survive the ISOT. Rotary wing assets, likewise, aren't really a good choice for this sort of endevor either since German flak and air interception will eat them alive. Practically speaking, you could probably insert units at a few (say, three) concentration camps, but then you've got to supply them and the thousands of people that are in them, plus the absolutely massive amount of supplies needed for the poor bastards who are going to be swimming in rear-echelon SS units.

If you want to fix that particular Uncomfortable Question, my only real suggestion is to end the war quicker or see if you can push the Soviets into something. Either way, it's an ugly question that has no good answer- you can act quickly, act strongly, or finish the job; choose two if you're lucky and one if you're not.
 
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On the planes point, all we need are airframes that can drop people and supplies out and avoid getting shot down right? How many 747s, A380s, 737s Bae146s etc etc are there in the UK? A few hundred? They're not doing anything or going anywhere. The 747 at least has a service ceiling well above anything the Nazis can send after it best I can tell so no danger of it being shot down.

As for defenses nearby, I can't see that they'll be so effective. I somewhat suspect that a Tornado, let alone a Eurofighter or an F35 will do quite well against most air interception (although it might struggle for being too fast!) and should be able to deal with any flak. I'd guess there are also ground to ground missiles but I don't know enough about those to really comment.

Honestly I think the big big problem, not just militarily but in terms of the whole country is going to be fuel. I dread to think how much oil and gas the country uses, and we can't quickly substitute them. I'm sort of wondering how windy it was in November and December 44 because that's going to make quite a difference to the gas situation with the power stations (how many of the big offshore farms went through with the ISOT?). I don't know what the global gas infrastructure is like in 44, I suspect the oil is more or less ok after rationing.

Also the food situation is going to be especially awkward given we just went from the middle of winter to the start.
 
Canned sunshine on the peak of the wolfs lair, then ask Germany to surrender when they are still asking where Adolf went.


Wait, what happens to morale in 21st Army Group when the news is broken that, er, sorry, your loved ones and families and friends no longer exist?


Huh, I get to meet my paternal grandad. And tell him to get that bone tb sorted out before the 1950s.
 
Perhaps I'm wrong about the Maybot and Corbyn (who is no Foot, who backed the Falklands, btw). I just don't have a lot of faith in contemporary politicians at the moment.

Modern helicopters would be horribly vulnerable to the large amounts of light AAA that the Germans possessed. The UK would probably have to act pretty quickly before the advantages it would have begin to slip away - e.g it's not just the 21st AG that depends on supplies from the UK, but also the 12th AG and the Allied armies in Italy and southern France, not to mention even the USSR to some extent.

If I were in No.10 I'd want to hit somewhere like Peenemünde with a Trident if possible. Would make a very useful demonstration.
 
If I were in No.10 I'd want to hit somewhere like Peenemünde with a Trident if possible. Would make a very useful demonstration.

Nah, go big or go home. Hit the Kiel Canal or one of the big train switching yards, or just cripple the KMS with a strike on Bremmen. Or just turn a few industrial parks to glass, it depends.
 
All those pink haired activists that scream about bashing the fash would all start pushing for peace with Hitler because we younger people are all soft, of course.

The lines to enlist would go around whole neighborhoods.
 
Nuking Hitler is a no brainer. Unlike a lone B-29 with a "big bomb" a nuclear rain of Trident warheads should impress the bastard... a little.
 
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I'd want to give the Germans one chance to surrender before we went all TBO on them.

I'd then say throw your Tomahawk missiles at them first then, but honestly throwing an olive branch out before they know you can back it up looks cocky. Intentional politics is a lot like a schoolyard knockabout- you gotta hit a guy before you say you can hit a guy.
 
David, I believe in the "thousands of lives in order to save millions" which is why i don't support criticism of the Allies for bombing civilians. More people died in the firebombings than the Atom Bombs but there's a stronger emotional link to nuclear bombs.
 
David, I believe in the "thousands of lives in order to save millions" which is why i don't support criticism of the Allies for bombing civilians. More people died in the firebombings than the Atom Bombs but there's a stronger emotional link to nuclear bombs.

Which does what, exactly? Emotional link or no, a government that does not move with the utmost urgency to remove an existential threat to itself is not going to remain a government- either through a removal by internal means or external. Hell, the nukes are one of the only weapons that 2019 UK brings to the table- everything else they have is either an existing asset with low to no production, or is a NATO loaner. The capacity to support the 1944 forces is next to non-existent, and even assuming that they can spin up the factories to chunk out more SMLEs and minutia of kit it's entirely likely the BEF will burn through the entirety of their local stocks, bringing the campaign to a terrible hault as American units and equipment are rushed forward to plug the gap.
 
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