WI/AHC: A viable & 'successful' left-wing UK political party

[Techdread]

Whilst I know that Labour is a centre-left social democratic party with democratic socialist factions within, what I mean by the title is one that is categorically left-wing in its outlook & policies i.e. one that is at its core and throughout its framework and organisations one that would be considered by all as left-wing. The main thing that OTL has shown is that it's difficult for any kind of minor party to have success in British politics thanks to its electoral system unless its a party with a clear purpose & message such as leaving the European Union or Scottish independence. The nearest comparison to a left-wing splinter party from Labour that briefly survived in the zeitgeist of the 2000s was Respect, which was founded largely through the Stop the War Coalition and was also in strong opposition to the pro-business economic policies of the Labour Party under Tony Blair. However it never managed to pick up any kind of momentum to win seats at Westminster save for Bradford West by former Labour MP George Galloway.

I'm curious as to thoughts of whether a more long-lived left-wing political party could survive, not necessarily from the Blair years or even necessarily a revamped Respect, but also who amongst those on the Labour left might defect across to this new party of the left, if anyone would. Thoughts?

 

[Gary Oswald]

There was a timeline in the other place about a Respect/Green Alliance replacing the Lib Dems as the acceptable protest party against a labour that remained dominated by the Blairites that I thought was quite fun if somewhat unlikely. POD being Ken Livingstone joining Respect rather than re-joining Labour while running in 2004.

I agree with you that I think Respect had more about it than say the socialist labour party, tusc or the scottish socialists.

There's also the possibility of a left wing splinter as opposed to the SDP in the early 80s.

And from 1918-50s there was much more of a space for a more radical party, with various communist and common wealth mps being elected, it's not impossible for a party like that to gain influence if the events of the 30s and 40s, depression, macdonald and fascism, turn people off the more mainstream parties. The world wide politics are volatile enough for things to change massively domestically as a result.

 

[Techdread]

There was a timeline in the other place about a Respect/Green Alliance replacing the Lib Dems as the acceptable protest party against a labour that remained dominated by the Blairites that I thought was quite fun if somewhat unlikely. POD being Ken Livingstone joining Respect rather than re-joining Labour while running in 2004.

Ah, The Politics of Respect - yes, I remember it well. I have looked at it a few times to try & gauge potential Labour defector MPs in a more contemporary setting. Although I suppose that TL was built for the express purpose of a more SYRIZA-type situation of a left-wing insurgent party but the possibility of a more comparatively moderate & pragmatic Respect leadership allying with the Greens makes some sense.

I agree with you that I think Respect had more about it than say the socialist labour party, tusc or the scottish socialists.

Perhaps because it was for a time a largely single issue party in its opposition to the Iraq War? At least in the eyes of the public and the media whilst the others were largely forgotten as vehicles for disgruntled left-wing figures or the latest incarnation of long-lived but unsuccessful movements i.e. Militant/Socialist Party.

There's also the possibility of a left wing splinter as opposed to the SDP in the early 80s.

I've looked at that before; I think we'd probably need the right of the party to have been in a more firm position during the 1970s, in a mirroring of OTL, for that to happen but it's not impossible; the easiest way might be to stop Jenkins resigning as deputy leader over Europe, which ultimately cost him a lot of support within the PLP as a result and would hurt any future leadership bids.

And from 1918-50s there was much more of a space for a more radical party, with various communist and common wealth mps being elected, it's not impossible for a party like that to gain influence if the events of the 30s and 40s, depression, macdonald and fascism, turn people off the more mainstream parties. The world wide politics are volatile enough for things to change massively domestically as a result.

A 'Popular Front' led by Cripps and Nye Bevan after both have been expelled perhaps? Admittedly I am a little more interested in a more contemporary situation rather than going back to the 1950s, though it would be interesting to see Labour's wing actually splitting the party during this time as well.

 

[Time Enough]

I'm curious as to thoughts of whether a more long-lived left-wing political party could survive, not necessarily from the Blair years or even necessarily a revamped Respect, but also who amongst those on the Labour left might defect across to this new party of the left, if anyone would. Thoughts?

Hmm, you could have some interesting scenarios out of this;
If Liz Davies manages to get selected for Leeds East in 1995 and wins (which isn’t unlikely given Blair landslide) she’d be a good candidate for it and probably not as electorally toxic in comparison to a Livingstone or Galloway. She could quite easily defect if she think Blair’s gone to far.

A further back scenario would be Gaitskell manages to push through his replacement of Clause 4 and a number of Left MPs and former Bevanites could split off and form a party.

Also a fun scenario is Richard Acland and Tom Driberg considered creating a new Left Wing Party fronted by Mick Jagger of all people. It could easily become a weird New Left Party given the Party was conceived in 1968.

 

[Gorro Rubio]

I had the idea for a TLIAD provisionally called Orange is the New Red were George Monbiot runs for the LibDems in a by-election around 2005 and ends up leading them to become firmly to the left of Labour by the late 2010s. Very ASB, but I think the only doable strategy is successfully taking control of a major party.

 

[Nyvis]

There was a timeline in the other place about a Respect/Green Alliance replacing the Lib Dems as the acceptable protest party against a labour that remained dominated by the Blairites that I thought was quite fun if somewhat unlikely. POD being Ken Livingstone joining Respect rather than re-joining Labour while running in 2004.

I agree with you that I think Respect had more about it than say the socialist labour party, tusc or the scottish socialists.

There's also the possibility of a left wing splinter as opposed to the SDP in the early 80s.

And from 1918-50s there was much more of a space for a more radical party, with various communist and common wealth mps being elected, it's not impossible for a party like that to gain influence if the events of the 30s and 40s, depression, macdonald and fascism, turn people off the more mainstream parties. The world wide politics are volatile enough for things to change massively domestically as a result.

Since you mention the SDP, how about a stronger SDP leading to a Labour empty of its right wing? Potentially with the center consolidating with the Tories veering right too and some kind of three equal parties system settling in?


If you want to go back further, something we discussed in a past thread was a situation where the trade unions never agree on building the labour party, which gives rise to a Tory/Liberal/ILP three parties system.

 

[Elektronaut]

I agree with you that I think Respect had more about it than say the socialist labour party, tusc or the scottish socialists.

I mean the SSP won multiple seats at Holyrood, and did it without being a Galloway party in Socialist clothing like Respect, so that seems pretty debatable. The SSP must be surely the most successful far-left party over the last few decades.

This is the point at which people say it's all about the importance of The Movement and working-class consciousness and whatnot, but realistically it's about having a different electoral system which opens up a multi-party system.

 

[Techdread]

I had the idea for a TLIAD provisionally called Orange is the New Red were George Monbiot runs for the LibDems in a by-election around 2005 and ends up leading them to become firmly to the left of Labour by the late 2010s. Very ASB, but I think the only doable strategy is successfully taking control of a major party.

Ted Grant would certainly agree with you there.

Since you mention the SDP, how about a stronger SDP leading to a Labour empty of its right wing? Potentially with the center consolidating with the Tories veering right too and some kind of three equal parties system settling in?

If you want to go back further, something we discussed in a past thread was a situation where the trade unions never agree on building the labour party, which gives rise to a Tory/Liberal/ILP three parties system.

That's an intriguing thought, although doesn't first-past-the-post tend to mean that major parties have to be broad tend to maximise their support, hence why British politics has in the past century largely been a two-and-one-half party system?

I mean the SSP won multiple seats at Holyrood, and did it without being a Galloway party in Socialist clothing like Respect, so that seems pretty debatable. The SSP must be surely the most successful far-left party over the last few decades.

This is the point at which people say it's all about the importance of The Movement and working-class consciousness and whatnot, but realistically it's about having a different electoral system which opens up a multi-party system.

I'd agree that they're the most successful in terms of electoral representation, but their success was also short-lived in the wake of the Sheridan scandal; their support has never recovered since then and having been on the inside of the party's hierarchy & leadership, I don't expect that to change soon either. I do agree with you that the electoral system is what allowed their success to happen though; had the Scottish Parliament been entirely FPTP rather than AMS, I doubt they'd achieve the same level of success after all which is the main hindrance to any smaller party regardless of its ideology in British politics.

EDIT: Just to build on the electoral system hurdle, something that I've seen in a number of PMs lists where there is a left-wing breakaway/alternative is the formation of an electoral alliance with the Greens - might be something with actual viability perhaps? Obviously Galloway's Respect was against any kind of electoral pact or agreement with the Greens IOTL but might a more pragmatic and cooperative figure & party instead prove fruitful for this alliance?

Also shifting the focus onto 'Who' for a moment, I've see the likes of SCG alumni often in the leadership roles of such parties in the aforementioned lists, amongst the more common to see is John McDonnell. Would he really leave the Labour Party for this? He seems a bit of an enigma as someone who was a fervent radical in his GLC days advocated an illegal budget as Militant-controlled Liverpool enacted, only to be reined in by Ken Livingstone, but was also seen as the professional behind-the-throne in the Corbyn leadership, despite rumours that he was also the hatchet man for the 'scary stuff'.

 

[Nyvis]

That's an intriguing thought, although doesn't first-past-the-post tend to mean that major parties have to be broad tend to maximise their support, hence why British politics has in the past century largely been a two-and-one-half party system?

That or have a locally coherent base to win specific seats. Potentially the rising SDP has trouble breaking through the Tories and Labour's hard base despite growing in vote share and champion voting reforms, at which point a 3 parties system is much easier to maintain.

 

[Elektronaut]

EDIT: Just to build on the electoral system hurdle, something that I've seen in a number of PMs lists where there is a left-wing breakaway/alternative is the formation of an electoral alliance with the Greens - might be something with actual viability perhaps?

I think it would depend on what type of left-wing party we're talking about. If it's a kind of soft leftish populist party, then sure, it's entirely a possibility. But the further left it goes, the less likely it seems to me. The Greens attract a decent amount of voters who are not exactly hard left, still less outright Marxist. Getting into bed with a party like that would seriously risk the catch-all image that they have with a lot of people.

 

[Time Enough]

A way you could around the hurdles of FPTP is having Tony Blair decide to agree to the proposals in the Jenkins Commison in 1998. Of course this would probably require Blair to huff glue but still even if it did it would probably allow a Party like the Scottish Socialist Party/RESPECT the opportunity to grow.

Also shifting the focus onto 'Who' for a moment, I've see the likes of SCG alumni often in the leadership roles of such parties in the aforementioned lists, amongst the more common to see is John McDonnell. Would he really leave the Labour Party for this? He seems a bit of an enigma as someone who was a fervent radical in his GLC days advocated an illegal budget as Militant-controlled Liverpool enacted, only to be reined in by Ken Livingstone, but was also seen as the professional behind-the-throne in the Corbyn leadership, despite rumours that he was also the hatchet man for the 'scary stuff'

John McDonnell is a bit all over the place in terms of politics but his main view seems to have always been, the Left must prepare for power. So he’d probably stay in Labour if it’s the place that will most likely allow the Left Wing to attain power.

As for people, I mentioned Liz Davies, maybe Richard Leonard and depending on the period Ken Livingstone.

 

[Nomad]

Ah, The Politics of Respect - yes, I remember it well. I have looked at it a few times to try & gauge potential Labour defector MPs in a more contemporary setting. Although I suppose that TL was built for the express purpose of a more SYRIZA-type situation of a left-wing insurgent party but the possibility of a more comparatively moderate & pragmatic Respect leadership allying with the Greens makes some sense.


Perhaps because it was for a time a largely single issue party in its opposition to the Iraq War? At least in the eyes of the public and the media whilst the others were largely forgotten as vehicles for disgruntled left-wing figures or the latest incarnation of long-lived but unsuccessful movements i.e. Militant/Socialist Party.

As it happens, I was actually the author of that TL (albeit under a different username). Part of the reason I chose Respect was because unlike the various other left wing splinter parties the UK has had, it was actually able to effectively game FPTP by focusing on appealing to a group (i.e. the Muslim community) that was focused within specific seats, and so they would have found it easier to gain a foothold in parliament.

Without electoral reform, any successful left wing party would need to find a way to replicate that, but I can't think of many opportunities that existed to do that. Maybe the 70s/80s go even worse for Labour, and you have the Alliance or some equivalent as one of the two main parties alongside the Tories, with Labour effectively a Bennite rump around the size of the Lib Dems at their peak.

A combination of habit and distaste for the other options means their traditional working class strongholds continue to return Labour MPs for the next few decades, and eventually the party gains popularity as a kind of soft left, populist, 'none of the above' option. It could either switch it's appeal to urban areas and university towns, or build on it's blue-collar appeal by becoming a more nationalistic, anti-globalisation party that makes some concessions to socially conserative opinion, more like La France Insoumise.

I also wonder if there is some mileage in having the ILP remain within Labour, and eventually build itself up into a significant left wing caucus that ends up ultimately disaffiliating over some monumental issue that captures the public mood, like the Miner's Strike or Iraq, and taking a few of the larger unions with them-though butterflies obviously means it probably wouldn't be those exact events.

 

[RyanF]

Now just one possibility, and requires a bit of work, but if Sainte-Laguë had been adopted as the allocation method for the Scottish Parliament and not D'Hondt then Scargill's Socialist Labour Party would have come away with something like three seats in 1999 if I remember a model for it I saw ages ago (even OTL then had ~10k more votes than the SSP, but more distributed across the country whereas the SSP was heavily concentrated in Glasgow). Now Sheridan is still likely to get in, but some of the growth seen by the SSP might instead go to the SLP (no relation to any publishing house) so by 2003 they might be stood in good stead to increase their seat numbers.

So you would have a left-wing party in one of the devolved assemblies that isn't tied to any particular home nation. Northern assemblies being successfully passed might see another avenue for them. There's still the hurdle of FPTP, but some of the attention and interest that Respect got in the mid-2000s might go toward the SLP instead.

Like I say would take a lot of doing, and Scargill is perhaps as much a hindrance as Sheridan and Galloway were to their parties, but just another avenue.

 

[Time Enough]

Without electoral reform, any successful left wing party would need to find a way to replicate that, but I can't think of many opportunities that existed to do that. Maybe the 70s/80s go even worse for Labour, and you have the Alliance or some equivalent as one of the two main parties alongside the Tories, with Labour effectively a Bennite rump around the size of the Lib Dems at their peak.

A combination of habit and distaste for the other options means their traditional working class strongholds continue to return Labour MPs for the next few decades, and eventually the party gains popularity as a kind of soft left, populist, 'none of the above' option. It could either switch it's appeal to urban areas and university towns, or build on it's blue-collar appeal by becoming a more nationalistic, anti-globalisation party that makes some concessions to socially conserative opinion, more like La France Insoumise.

A good way you could do this is as you said, the Alliance wins and smashes much of Labour, Madelson defects to the SDP etc. Benn still loses in 1983 and in his place you get a Meacher/Kinnock ticket (Hattersley falls down some stairs or something). In the place of the SDP's Social Liberalism/Democracy you get a kind of Eurosceptic Bevanite Soft Left status to Labour. That kind of perspective would easily allow for Labour to eventually become the Left Wing Populist option (also I guess Militant would still be ousted) and could work for both Uni towns and blue collar appeal maybe.

Now just one possibility, and requires a bit of work, but if Sainte-Laguë had been adopted as the allocation method for the Scottish Parliament and not D'Hondt then Scargill's Socialist Labour Party would have come away with something like three seats in 1999 if I remember a model for it I saw ages ago (even OTL then had ~10k more votes than the SSP, but more distributed across the country whereas the SSP was heavily concentrated in Glasgow). Now Sheridan is still likely to get in, but some of the growth seen by the SSP might instead go to the SLP (no relation to any publishing house) so by 2003 they might be stood in good stead to increase their seat numbers.

So you would have a left-wing party in one of the devolved assemblies that isn't tied to any particular home nation. Northern assemblies being successfully passed might see another avenue for them. There's still the hurdle of FPTP, but some of the attention and interest that Respect got in the mid-2000s might go toward the SLP instead.

Like I say would take a lot of doing, and Scargill is perhaps as much a hindrance as Sheridan and Galloway were to their parties, but just another avenue.

I could see Scargill being rapidly replace in time after it's apparent his numerous defects you'd also have to oust Harpal Brar too. Now who would replace them would have to be seen but it could range from Bob Crow to Ian Lavery in terms of Angry Left Wing Man Quality.

 

[Venocara]

On the other place there's a timeline called The North Star Is Red which sees the Liberals get taken over by Libertarian Socialists in the 1950s. With decolonisation being much bloodier than in OTL and both the Conservatives and Labour continously making a mess of themselves they gradually grow in strength until a sudden victory in 1964. Not entirely sure how plausible that victory is but the growth beforehand seems pretty sound.

 

[Time Enough]

I just had an idea; so The Soviet’s are able to keep funding the CPGB for slightly longer, Benn packs it/dies just after 1983 and John Smith coups Kinnock in 1988/89. So Nina Temple takes over the CPGB which whilst still wheezing it’s last breathes has a bank account full of money which could you could fund a party with. So after a spat with the other party heads, Temple and others fully take over the Party and rename the CPGB the ‘Democratic Left’ and pursue a "feminist and green, as well as democratically socialist.” agenda.

Meanwhile Derek Wall and a number of followers leave the Green Party during the same period as Derek Icke goes all Icke and the Party rips itself apart. Finding a good home in the ‘Democratic Left’ the Party pursues a ‘Red & Green’ agenda with Populist elements. It also creates an alliance with a few other Left Wing groups in Britain.

1992, John Smith wins in Parliament (after the Thatcher government implodes over ERM) and pursues a Conservative Montarist route before a heart attack puts him out of commission in 1993. Blair steps into the breach and does Blair things whilst purging the remains of the Bennites as well. These folks flock to the ‘Democratic Left’ and by the late 1990s it starts gaining ground and council seats. It reaches a climax with Ken Livingstone becoming Mayor of London in 1997 as the Democratic Left candidate.

So yeah the remains of the Communist Party of Great Britain are able to become a significant Left Wing minor party by the early 2000s.

This is a very rough idea but it could work.