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Which European monarchies do you still see eventually getting abolished without the World Wars?

CaliGuy

Active member
Which European monarchies do you still see eventually getting abolished without the World Wars? For the record, I want to split this question into two parts:

1. Which European monarchies do you still see eventually getting abolished without both World Wars?
2. Which European monarchies do you still see eventually getting abolished with World War I but without World War II?
 
An awful lot is going to depend on exactly how the wars don't happen, but doing a rough run down (and ignoring the likes of Monaco or Liechtenstein):

Most Likely to survive

I'd say that even surviving historically isn't a guarantee of surviving here- the lack of counter-examples/threats might encourage a more reactionary take for example- but anyone who survived the 20th Century historically has to be considered to have the best chance of surviving:

-Belgium, with the caveat that the handling of divisions between the Flemish and Walloons could doom it regardless.
-Denmark
-Luxembourg
-Netherlands
-Norway
-Sweden
-United Kingdom, with the possibility that Ireland ends up a Commonwealth Realm without WWI (and that's a whole other topic)

I'd also put the following into this category:

-Bulgaria: Tsar Simeon, or at least the idea of Tsar Simeon, was popular enough historically to get elected Prime Minnister after the fall of communism. Quite possible that if he's actually ruling Bulgaria for the second half of the 20th Century he ends up losing the throne, but this feels like one where we need to actively posit 'the monarch just completely screws up'.
-Romania: There was a similar popularity in post-communist Romania for the idea of King Michael- neither case anywhere near the prospect of an actual restoration, but (while I'd defer to @Yokai Man here) again it feels like Romania probably would have stayed a monarchy if left to itself unless the monarch screws up.

We can't really use the OTL personalities of either Michael or Simeon mind you considering how much they were shaped by exile and the Communist occupation of their homelands.

Likely to survive

-Italy: It's dependent on what happens in the 20s. A lot. No WWI possibly means that fascism doesn't get going, but desire for territorial aggrandisement in the Med is still going to be a thing. Italy only voted relatively narrowly for a republic in 1946 anyway (54-46 roughly) so it feels like it's got a good shot, but Italy also feels like the historic trends point towards 'the monarchy discredits itself through stupidity or backing the political reactionaries more than for somewhere like the Netherlands. There's a decent argument that it's as likely to survive as Belgium's, and the monarchy in the latter has just been lucky/managed to play their cards right.
-Spain: But wait, I hear you cry, Spain survived historically. Yeah and that's basically the only reason this is this high. There were deep structural issues in the Kingdom in the early 20th Century- the establishment of the 2nd Republic feels more likely than not- and while it's still possible that the Spanish monarchy could be restored regardless of the exact sequence of events that happened historically, it feels equally plausible that Spain just sees a series of republics of different stripes rather than ever bringing back the monarch- @Gorro Rubio your thoughts here?

Potentially an option

-Germany: Absent WWI a lot of the reasons for the 1919 revolution are removed. On the other hand if the Savoys were willing to endorse a reactionary government to maintain their position, the Hohenzollerns were quite happy to try imposing one. Really without WWI there's probably some sort of crisis brewing in the 20s or 30s as Kaiser Wilhelm had all the political sense of a melon. If it can survive him, and if the Crown Prince not looking for a way to get the throne back means he's willing to be more moderate than historically- then either of his sons look like they could have been the sort of moderniser needed to ensure the monarchy's survival- though Wilhelm's historic decision to pull an Edward VIII seems like something that could have happened regardless. I'm not going to touch the constituent monarchies.
-Greece: Greece's monarchs really weren't the brightest or most capable bunch historically, but a lot of the reasons for its downfall stem from events such as the National Schism (on whether to enter WWI), the disastrous Asia Minor campaigns after the Treaty of Sevres, the instability of the second republic and resultant poor handling of the depression and the growth of the military's influence on politics after this. It's still very possible that things go wrong- the 30s seem like a time when things could still have essentially imploded for the monarchy- but Greece feels like it's got a decent shot.
-Malta: Either within the UK or as a Commonwealth realm, either seem like something that just didn't quite work out historically.
-Montenegro: Will live or die on how tempting pan-Yugoslavism is. There's always going to be a faction calling for union with Serbia, and the better Serbia is doing the more likely it is they get integrated (though potentially as a federal sub-monarchy). Serbia and/or Yugoslavia seem more likely than not to go to hell in a handbasket however, so Montenegro's 'just stay quiet and don't get involved' tactics could be appealing. Perversely, the lack of WWI might mean that they end up being kept out of Serbia's orbit by a strong Italian alliance which may, or may not, doom the monarchy regardless.
-Russia: Has massive issues, and Nicholas II is an absolute idiot. This is one of those make-or-break situations however- most of the Romanov men seem to have died about 60, give or take, so if Nicholas makes it through the 20s as a reactionary, but gradually industrialising, monarch before dying it looks like the next heirs would be at least willing to work with the Duma. High chance of the monarchy getting deposed in the 50s/60s IMO.

Unlikely to surivive

-Austria: NOT Austria-Hungary (for which see below). The loss of prestige from the almost-certain collapse of Austria-Hungary will be a significant issue for the House of Habsburg, but if its gradual/managed enough they might be able to focus in on just Austria-Bohemia-Carinola. It's a big ask and it's going to take a lot of careful navigation, but there's a path forward for them.
-Portugal: The Estado Novo considered restoring the Portuguese monarchy to secure legitimacy historically. There's a possibility that they're able to achieve the Juan Carlos option but it's slim.
-Serbia: Serbia is going to manage fine for a bit. Then Austria-Hungary collapses and inevitably they're going to get mixed up in efforts to take Bosnia-Herzegovina/union with Croatia/Yugoslav ideals and the monarchy is going to get involved heavily here and basically it's just going to be a horrific mess no matter what happens. There is no objective reason why the Serbian monarchy can't survive, but good grief they are going to have to roll sixes all the time.

No chance at all

-Austria-Hungary: As @David Flin can expound upon at length, A-H was doomed, doomed, doomed. It's been on life support since the Ausgleich of 1866 and the annexation of Bosnia in 1908 just makes things worse. Franz Ferdinand's Federal Empire is a nice, but completely unworkable, idea along the same lines as the Imperial Federation for the British Empire.
-Iceland: Voted to break the Personal Union with Denmark by 98%.
-Ottoman Empire: I can't see the Ottoman Empire surviving past the 40s, and whereas the Habsburgs might be able to reinvent themselves, the most likely end for the Ottomans- taken apart by foreign empires or torn apart from internal revolution and rebellion- looks more likely to spell a definitive end for the monarchy.
 
An awful lot is going to depend on exactly how the wars don't happen, but doing a rough run down (and ignoring the likes of Monaco or Liechtenstein):

Most Likely to survive

I'd say that even surviving historically isn't a guarantee of surviving here- the lack of counter-examples/threats might encourage a more reactionary take for example- but anyone who survived the 20th Century historically has to be considered to have the best chance of surviving:

-Belgium, with the caveat that the handling of divisions between the Flemish and Walloons could doom it regardless.
-Denmark
-Luxembourg
-Netherlands
-Norway
-Sweden
-United Kingdom, with the possibility that Ireland ends up a Commonwealth Realm without WWI (and that's a whole other topic)

I'd also put the following into this category:

-Bulgaria: Tsar Simeon, or at least the idea of Tsar Simeon, was popular enough historically to get elected Prime Minnister after the fall of communism. Quite possible that if he's actually ruling Bulgaria for the second half of the 20th Century he ends up losing the throne, but this feels like one where we need to actively posit 'the monarch just completely screws up'.
-Romania: There was a similar popularity in post-communist Romania for the idea of King Michael- neither case anywhere near the prospect of an actual restoration, but (while I'd defer to @Yokai Man here) again it feels like Romania probably would have stayed a monarchy if left to itself unless the monarch screws up.

We can't really use the OTL personalities of either Michael or Simeon mind you considering how much they were shaped by exile and the Communist occupation of their homelands.

Makes sense.

Likely to survive
-Italy: It's dependent on what happens in the 20s. A lot. No WWI possibly means that fascism doesn't get going, but desire for territorial aggrandisement in the Med is still going to be a thing. Italy only voted relatively narrowly for a republic in 1946 anyway (54-46 roughly) so it feels like it's got a good shot, but Italy also feels like the historic trends point towards 'the monarchy discredits itself through stupidity or backing the political reactionaries more than for somewhere like the Netherlands. There's a decent argument that it's as likely to survive as Belgium's, and the monarchy in the latter has just been lucky/managed to play their cards right.

How much power did the Italian King have relative to the Belgian King?

-Spain: But wait, I hear you cry, Spain survived historically. Yeah and that's basically the only reason this is this high. There were deep structural issues in the Kingdom in the early 20th Century- the establishment of the 2nd Republic feels more likely than not- and while it's still possible that the Spanish monarchy could be restored regardless of the exact sequence of events that happened historically, it feels equally plausible that Spain just sees a series of republics of different stripes rather than ever bringing back the monarch- @Gorro Rubio your thoughts here?

Makes sense.

Potentially an option
-Germany: Absent WWI a lot of the reasons for the 1919 revolution are removed. On the other hand if the Savoys were willing to endorse a reactionary government to maintain their position, the Hohenzollerns were quite happy to try imposing one. Really without WWI there's probably some sort of crisis brewing in the 20s or 30s as Kaiser Wilhelm had all the political sense of a melon. If it can survive him, and if the Crown Prince not looking for a way to get the throne back means he's willing to be more moderate than historically- then either of his sons look like they could have been the sort of moderniser needed to ensure the monarchy's survival- though Wilhelm's historic decision to pull an Edward VIII seems like something that could have happened regardless. I'm not going to touch the constituent monarchies.

If Wilhelm (Wilhelm II's grandson) decides to give up the German throne for love, then it shouldn't make too much difference considering that he'll simply be succeeded by his younger brother Louis Ferdinand, correct?

-Greece: Greece's monarchs really weren't the brightest or most capable bunch historically, but a lot of the reasons for its downfall stem from events such as the National Schism (on whether to enter WWI), the disastrous Asia Minor campaigns after the Treaty of Sevres, the instability of the second republic and resultant poor handling of the depression and the growth of the military's influence on politics after this. It's still very possible that things go wrong- the 30s seem like a time when things could still have essentially imploded for the monarchy- but Greece feels like it's got a decent shot.
-Malta: Either within the UK or as a Commonwealth realm, either seem like something that just didn't quite work out historically.
-Montenegro: Will live or die on how tempting pan-Yugoslavism is. There's always going to be a faction calling for union with Serbia, and the better Serbia is doing the more likely it is they get integrated (though potentially as a federal sub-monarchy). Serbia and/or Yugoslavia seem more likely than not to go to hell in a handbasket however, so Montenegro's 'just stay quiet and don't get involved' tactics could be appealing. Perversely, the lack of WWI might mean that they end up being kept out of Serbia's orbit by a strong Italian alliance which may, or may not, doom the monarchy regardless.

Makes sense.

-Russia: Has massive issues, and Nicholas II is an absolute idiot. This is one of those make-or-break situations however- most of the Romanov men seem to have died about 60, give or take, so if Nicholas makes it through the 20s as a reactionary, but gradually industrialising, monarch before dying it looks like the next heirs would be at least willing to work with the Duma. High chance of the monarchy getting deposed in the 50s/60s IMO.

Why in the 1950s or 1960s specifically?

Unlikely to surivive
-Austria: NOT Austria-Hungary (for which see below). The loss of prestige from the almost-certain collapse of Austria-Hungary will be a significant issue for the House of Habsburg, but if its gradual/managed enough they might be able to focus in on just Austria-Bohemia-Carinola. It's a big ask and it's going to take a lot of careful navigation, but there's a path forward for them.
-Portugal: The Estado Novo considered restoring the Portuguese monarchy to secure legitimacy historically. There's a possibility that they're able to achieve the Juan Carlos option but it's slim.
-Serbia: Serbia is going to manage fine for a bit. Then Austria-Hungary collapses and inevitably they're going to get mixed up in efforts to take Bosnia-Herzegovina/union with Croatia/Yugoslav ideals and the monarchy is going to get involved heavily here and basically it's just going to be a horrific mess no matter what happens. There is no objective reason why the Serbian monarchy can't survive, but good grief they are going to have to roll sixes all the time.

Why would a collapse of Austria-Hungary have turned the Serbian population against their own monarchy, though?

No chance at all

-Austria-Hungary: As @David Flin can expound upon at length, A-H was doomed, doomed, doomed. It's been on life support since the Ausgleich of 1866 and the annexation of Bosnia in 1908 just makes things worse. Franz Ferdinand's Federal Empire is a nice, but completely unworkable, idea along the same lines as the Imperial Federation for the British Empire.
-Iceland: Voted to break the Personal Union with Denmark by 98%.
-Ottoman Empire: I can't see the Ottoman Empire surviving past the 40s, and whereas the Habsburgs might be able to reinvent themselves, the most likely end for the Ottomans- taken apart by foreign empires or torn apart from internal revolution and rebellion- looks more likely to spell a definitive end for the monarchy.

Can't the Ottoman Empire survive as a rump state based on just Turkey/Anatolia, though?
 
How much power did the Italian King have relative to the Belgian King?

Something like 20 direct interventions in forming governments between 1905 and 1922. There's broad similarities there- staunchly catholic families which would likely oppose some social efforts, frequently fractious politics requiring intervention, political issues rumbling beneath the surface.

Why in the 1950s or 1960s specifically?

Assuming Nicholas II doesn't bring it all tumbling down anyway, and you've got a Tsar allowing the Duma to have some degree of power afterwards (which Kyril Vladimirovich seems to have been), that's probably about the point where we're seeing a family who want to hold onto as much power as possible facing against a Duma where the working class are in a position to take control democratically. It's all the fun of Wilhelm II against the SPD only with a family with a track record of sending the troops in against the peasants if needs be.

Why would a collapse of Austria-Hungary have turned the Serbian population against their own monarchy, though?

You either get a triumphant sweep north into Zagreb followed by all the fun of the Serbian monarchy attempting to keep the Croats down, or an attempt to conquer Bosnia-Herzegovina that might get squashed, or the possibility of perhaps a decades long conflict with an independent Croatia and Hungary over border-lands that keeps on sapping blood and treasure, or defined borders but massive amounts of internal dissent. Oh and groups within the country pressing to go further, the military getting involved and all that jazz do even if you don't try and expand that's causing issues. The Karadordevics look like they've got all the historic issues of the Greek monarchy but on steroids.

Can't the Ottoman Empire survive as a rump state based on just Turkey/Anatolia, though?

If Britain/Russia go after the Ottomans it's basically Sevres But We Actually Have The Will To Enforce It. If not, the Arabs, Armenians and Assyrians are likely to rise up in revolt. The Empire needs serious military and political reform and you've already had the Young Turks effectively seize control of the country and force the deposition of a Caliph trying to get rid of them. Military defeat is likely to discredit both the constitutional government and the Caliphate. The military seizing power seems more likely.
 
Something like 20 direct interventions in forming governments between 1905 and 1922. There's broad similarities there- staunchly catholic families which would likely oppose some social efforts, frequently fractious politics requiring intervention, political issues rumbling beneath the surface.

Belgium's King didn't directly intervene in forming governments?

Assuming Nicholas II doesn't bring it all tumbling down anyway, and you've got a Tsar allowing the Duma to have some degree of power afterwards (which Kyril Vladimirovich seems to have been), that's probably about the point where we're seeing a family who want to hold onto as much power as possible facing against a Duma where the working class are in a position to take control democratically. It's all the fun of Wilhelm II against the SPD only with a family with a track record of sending the troops in against the peasants if needs be.

Good analysis. Anyway, though, FWIW, I suspect that if the Tsarevich Alexei dies without producing a surviving male heir of his own, then Nicholas will change the Russian succession laws in order to allow women to succeed in order to prevent the Russian throne from falling into the hands of Cyril/Kyrill and his descendants.

You either get a triumphant sweep north into Zagreb followed by all the fun of the Serbian monarchy attempting to keep the Croats down,

What makes you think that the Croats would rebel--at least immediately?

or an attempt to conquer Bosnia-Herzegovina that might get squashed,

Who is going to squash it? Germany? Because that might trigger an alternate World War I if Russia decides to help the Serbs in this scenario.

or the possibility of perhaps a decades long conflict with an independent Croatia and Hungary over border-lands that keeps on sapping blood and treasure, or defined borders but massive amounts of internal dissent. Oh and groups within the country pressing to go further, the military getting involved and all that jazz do even if you don't try and expand that's causing issues. The Karadordevics look like they've got all the historic issues of the Greek monarchy but on steroids.

Interesting. Also, FWIW, if the Austro-Hungarian empire goes boom, Russia might very well be interested in shaping and enforcing the new post-A-H peace settlement. Ditto for Germany.

If Britain/Russia go after the Ottomans it's basically Sevres But We Actually Have The Will To Enforce It. If not, the Arabs, Armenians and Assyrians are likely to rise up in revolt. The Empire needs serious military and political reform and you've already had the Young Turks effectively seize control of the country and force the deposition of a Caliph trying to get rid of them. Military defeat is likely to discredit both the constitutional government and the Caliphate. The military seizing power seems more likely.

Was the Ottoman military actually independent of the Young Turks, though?

Also, are the Russians going to limit themselves to Pontus and Ottoman Armenia or are they going to press even further in this scenario--such as into Kurdistan? I'm unsure that Britain would have actually allowed them to have the Straits if the Ottoman Empire collapsed, say, in the 1940s (when Russia will be perceived as being much more powerful) as opposed to in the 1910s (as was the situation in real life).
 
Belgium's King didn't directly intervene in forming governments?

Albert I was directly involved in mediating between parties the bring in Universal male suffrage post-WWI, but granted I'd misremembered how much they were.

Good analysis. Anyway, though, FWIW, I suspect that if the Tsarevich Alexei dies without producing a surviving male heir of his own, then Nicholas will change the Russian succession laws in order to allow women to succeed in order to prevent the Russian throne from falling into the hands of Cyril/Kyrill and his descendants.

That can only make the prospects for the Romanovs worse IMO.

What makes you think that the Croats would rebel--at least immediately?

Belgrade basically ran Yugoslavia as Greater Serbia historically. I don't see that changing here. And Alexander I of Yugoslavia was historically terrified that the Serb-dominated army officers would depose and/or murder him if he wasn't seen as doing enough to promote Serb interests. Largely because they'd done literally exactly that to the last of the Obrenovic monarchs in 1908.

Who is going to squash it? Germany? Because that might trigger an alternate World War I if Russia decides to help the Serbs in this scenario.

Italy trying to grab Dalmatia and set up some puppets is a strong possibility.

Interesting. Also, FWIW, if the Austro-Hungarian empire goes boom, Russia might very well be interested in shaping and enforcing the new post-A-H peace settlement. Ditto for Germany.

Quite possible, also quite possible this leads to some sort of domestic political schism over whether to accept the settlement which could undermine the monarchy.

Essentially, Greece's monarchy was severely destabilised by WWI and subsequent events, but conversely Serbia's monarchy looks likely to be severely destabilised by the effects of not having WWI.

Was the Ottoman military actually independent of the Young Turks, though?

Also, are the Russians going to limit themselves to Pontus and Ottoman Armenia or are they going to press even further in this scenario--such as into Kurdistan? I'm unsure that Britain would have actually allowed them to have the Straits if the Ottoman Empire collapsed, say, in the 1940s (when Russia will be perceived as being much more powerful) as opposed to in the 1910s (as was the situation in real life).

Not sure if they were in 1908. Later on- after a crushing military defeat for example- you might well see two camps of 'clearly the reforms didn't go far enough, why do we need a Caliph?' and 'no clearly we need a strong, military leader in charge (sure we can keep the Caliph)' and the latter is unlikely to be good for survival of the monarchy beyond the length of that regime.

As for Britain propping up the Ottomans. Possible, but we saw how well that worked out for the monarchy in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Egypt.
 
Belgium's King didn't directly intervene in forming governments?

Albert I was directly involved in mediating between parties the bring in Universal male suffrage post-WWI, but granted I'd misremembered how much they were.

The Belgian Kings are still expected to play the umpire role, especially as the party system has atomised after the 1970s, making their role more important to bring about agreement.

Historically, Belgian monarchs were quite influential in creating governments, indirectly (in blocking certain ministers from being nominated, over policy or personal differences) and directly (by sometimes appointing their own formateurs without consulting the 'parties' in the early 20th century). I have a really nice book covering the time period after WWI, I can check if you want the details.

The weakest point for the Belgian monarchy was without a doubt the 1950 Royal Question over whether to allow Leopold III to return to Belgium as King, the Catholic party (but not internally united on the issue, as usual) was in favour, everyone else against. The Walloons were against, Flemings in favour. After a narrow referendum victory, Belgians chose Leopold to return as King, but the political class wasn't happy given his activist role before WWII in pursuing and forcing a neutral foreign policy to his ministers before WWII. After rioting, a Belgian compromise was struck - Leopold would return but not reign.

The important thing was that, despite republican demands from the more extreme corners of the PSB and the PCB, the question was never monarchy itself, but who the monarch should be. I'd say that shows the degree of acceptance that the monarchy had attained.
 
-Austria-Hungary: As @David Flin can expound upon at length, A-H was doomed, doomed, doomed. It's been on life support since the Ausgleich of 1866 and the annexation of Bosnia in 1908 just makes things worse. Franz Ferdinand's Federal Empire is a nice, but completely unworkable, idea along the same lines as the Imperial Federation for the British Empire.

Why are the Austrian Federal Empire and British Imperial Federation considered unworkable?
 
Why are the Austrian Federal Empire and British Imperial Federation considered unworkable?

Essentially, the only people who ever seemed to actually support the idea were a minority of intellectual theorists. Yes Archduke Franz Ferdinand was one of them. No that doesn't help things if the majority of the Hungarian Parliament just turns around and says 'no, we're leaving and taking Croatia with us'.
 
Essentially, the only people who ever seemed to actually support the idea were a minority of intellectual theorists. Yes Archduke Franz Ferdinand was one of them. No that doesn't help things if the majority of the Hungarian Parliament just turns around and says 'no, we're leaving and taking Croatia with us'.

Is it possible to get the Hungarian Parliament onside or is it much more likely before 1867?
 
But what is the fundamental reason as to why it can't happen after 1848, especially if the Austrians are backing it?

Because the Magyar aristocrats don't want it and there's no mechanism that can make them budge.

They refused to submit to even limited reforms in WWI. They starved the rest of the country rather than have to work in a centralised way. They were on a level akin to the Japanese command in the years leading up to WWII.
 
Essentially, the only people who ever seemed to actually support the idea were a minority of intellectual theorists. Yes Archduke Franz Ferdinand was one of them. No that doesn't help things if the majority of the Hungarian Parliament just turns around and says 'no, we're leaving and taking Croatia with us'.
Can Franz Ferdinand force the Hungarians to submit to his demands by force? Or, as a constitutional monarch, would his powers to make Hungary obey him be limited?

Also, as a side question, might the Hungarians ask the Russians for a military intervention on their behalf in the event of an Austrian attack? If so, are the Russians--and also the French--actually going to agree to this Hungarian demand?
 
Another question--if the Hungarians figure out Franz Ferdinand's plans ahead of time, can they simply try changing their succession laws in order to prevent Franz Ferdinand from inheriting the Hungarian throne upon Franz Joseph's death?
 
Why are the Austrian Federal Empire and British Imperial Federation considered unworkable?

In the latter case, while my... hell, I guess it's a quasi-professional opinion is that the movement had slightly more juice to it* than is generally acknowledged by historians who only focus at the support the idea got in Britain itself, it was still incredibly unlikely to gain traction in the 1880s and 1890s. 1902 at the very latest, the already thin odds had pretty much dissipated.

The cliche of Imperial Federation happening as a way for Britain to become the third superpower was never on the cards. There was never any time anywhere within the empire where the idea commanded the enthusiastic support of a government, let alone a parliament, and for it to be possible it would have had to be supported not just in one government but many- for a period of many years, given how long it would take to enact even the first steps.

It wasn't going to happen.

It's an interesting movement, and I think it's worth studying to understand how people thought about the Empire and its future, but we shouldn't mistake it for the path not taken.


*That is to say, I think that there was more public support in the Dominions for some kind of customs union and even possibly a nominal imperial parliament than is usually considered. That is not to say that the Canadian/Victorian/New Zealand public was prepared to actually give up anything to achieve those goals, just that the idea wasn't entirely the preserve of a few London intellectuals.
 
In the latter case, while my... hell, I guess it's a quasi-professional opinion is that the movement had slightly more juice to it* than is generally acknowledged by historians who only focus at the support the idea got in Britain itself, it was still incredibly unlikely to gain traction in the 1880s and 1890s. 1902 at the very latest, the already thin odds had pretty much dissipated.

The cliche of Imperial Federation happening as a way for Britain to become the third superpower was never on the cards. There was never any time anywhere within the empire where the idea commanded the enthusiastic support of a government, let alone a parliament, and for it to be possible it would have had to be supported not just in one government but many- for a period of many years, given how long it would take to enact even the first steps.

It wasn't going to happen.

It's an interesting movement, and I think it's worth studying to understand how people thought about the Empire and its future, but we shouldn't mistake it for the path not taken.


*That is to say, I think that there was more public support in the Dominions for some kind of customs union and even possibly a nominal imperial parliament than is usually considered. That is not to say that the Canadian/Victorian/New Zealand public was prepared to actually give up anything to achieve those goals, just that the idea wasn't entirely the preserve of a few London intellectuals.

Assuming that everything goes in its favour from say 1850 onwards, is it possible to get something resembling it in some way? Or is it more plausible to go down the route of trying to incorporate them directly into the United Kingdom?
 
Forgive me for brevity, but I should really be working, not on the forum.

Something resembling it in some way? Yes. A lot of things would have to go right, but I can picture a system of preferential tariffs, possibly even a customs union. I don't think you'd ever see a real Imperial parliament, but I suppose you might see something like 'colonial' lords- the appointment of ex-premiers or agents-general as peers to act as unofficial voices of the Empire. Maybe a Committee of Imperial Defence which has more authority than in our timeline.

Direct incorporation? Not a chance. Seriously, not a chance. The great obstacle to Imperial Federation was that every time there was a half-way serious chance of implementing a small step, it required the colonies to give up some element of self-government or freedom without an equivalent sacrifice from the metropole. Even Alfred Deakin, the single most fervent backer of Imperial Federation in Australasia was never prepared to do that. Nor was Wilfred Laurier in Canada. They knew that it would be hugely unpopular at home and probably wreck their governments.

If you want to avoid colonial self-government at all, then frankly that's a recipe for the British Empire disintegrating before 1900, not successfully centralizing.
 
Most Likely to survive

I'd say that even surviving historically isn't a guarantee of surviving here- the lack of counter-examples/threats might encourage a more reactionary take for example- but anyone who survived the 20th Century historically has to be considered to have the best chance of surviving:

-Belgium, with the caveat that the handling of divisions between the Flemish and Walloons could doom it regardless.
-Denmark
-Luxembourg
-Netherlands
-Norway
-Sweden
-United Kingdom, with the possibility that Ireland ends up a Commonwealth Realm without WWI (and that's a whole other topic)

Not as likely as you think!

The Social Democrats were actually very serious about their republicanism prior to the 1930s, and for good reason: the King, Gustav V, was thoroughly reactionary, and, as later became apparent, a Nazi sympathizer. He took a very hands on approach to politics, often coming with unsolicites advice to his Prime Ministers, and engaging in negotiations behind their backs. And while it has never explicitly been proven that the man in question was a peadophile, it is well known that the Swedish court paid quite generous sums in hush money to the fellow who accused the King of having sexually abused him when he was a child, and went to quite some efforts to try to get him thrown into German prison.
 
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